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Old 11-20-2009, 11:54 AM   #11
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Thats fucking ridiculous weight, wow.
i agree, so to everyone who says that the old skool methods dont work, i say shove it. I mean look at pacifo, hell look at park, that man benched 500ibs back in like the 40's or early 50's, no shirt or steroids.
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Old 11-20-2009, 12:31 PM   #12
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i agree, so to everyone who says that the old skool methods dont work, i say shove it. I mean look at pacifo, hell look at park, that man benched 500ibs back in like the 40's or early 50's, no shirt or steroids.
Pacifico was a steroid user. In fact, his life is scarred by many steroid scandals.

Naturally, you really aren't getting much more then a hair over a raw 1600 total unless your juicing.

Some text on Pacifico, and his buddy Fitton...from Sports Illustrated

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Word quickly spread beyond powerlifters about Dr. Hormone, the mad scientist with the lilting accent. While sports physicians and administrators were losing credibility (and wasting time) telling athletes that steroids were worthless, Fitton was telling them otherwise and proving it. "He seemed to [always] know what to do and how to take this and that, safely," Pacifico says. "I think that's why he had a great following." Fitton says that he never actively recruited clients, but when he attended competitions lifters would approach him for training advice. If the discussion turned to drugs, well, Fitton was happy to make some recommendations.

Soon, Fitton was working the phones night and day, interviewing doctors and advising trainers and athletes about performance enhancers. A ledger documenting more than a year of his steroid business, which SI obtained in court records, showed orders from bodybuilders, gym owners, college and pro football players, a deputy police chief and a University of Virginia strength coach. Fitton designed a complete steroid training program for several Oakland Raiders that included regular doses of Dianabol and Deca-Durabolin. Inquiries were constant. "The only check I did was, 'Who told ya?' " Fitton recalls. " 'Who mentioned my name?' If it sounded right -- if the person they said, I knew them -- it was all right."

Fitton found a pharmacy in Opelika, Ala., that stored the drugs. The supply channel was blessedly straightforward. Fitton would make occasional trips to Spain and Italy, where steroids were legal -- "I'd clean out the pharmacies in Milan," he says -- and fill up his luggage. He would also make periodic jaunts from San Diego to Mexico in a cheap rental car. "The old cars were better, because you could pull door panels off and load s--- in places," he says. "That's what we used to do."
And a story about Pacifico and his son...

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He may not be able to tear the phone book in half, but, at 5-8, 187 pounds, Jimmie is a teenage bulldozer, stronger than most men at your neighborhood gym. His body is lean and ripped with layers of muscles. He can bench press 305 pounds, the weight of a baby elephant. When he squats 500 pounds, so much weight that it threatens to crush him, he is Superboy defying gravity.

His father couldn't lift that much until he was 21, which is significant. Larry Pacifico was perhaps the greatest powerlifter of all time.

In the 1970s, Pacifico was Hercules, a 5-6, 242-pound Michelin Man of muscles cut wide and rippled, his body a relief map of hard bumps and lumps. A nine-time powerlifting world champion, he went undefeated for 10 years.

At the height of his success, he made weightlifting a career. He sold his own videos, apparel and vitamins. He gave speeches and seminars. He worked as a network television commentator for weightlifting events.

From there, he moved into business in the Dayton area. Now 56, he owns two gyms called Club Champions, and licenses three more.

Jimmie Pacifico, 14, practices his shot put. A national champion in the sport, Jimmie says he has put on more than 80 pounds in three years with the help of his father, a nine-time powerlifting world champion who now owns and licenses gyms.

All of that success came at a high cost. To keep up with his competitors, Pacifico says, he started using steroids, the muscle-building drugs that can be obtained legally only through a doctor's prescription. As a user of the drugs, he became part of their secret fraternity. He then became a dealer.

Soon enough, he paid the price.

He says that steroid use contributed to serious health problems. Three heart attacks. A seven-way coronary bypass. Fifteen orthopedic surgeries. Chronic pain in his joints. Advanced arthritis.

In 1986, two years before Jimmie's birth, Pacifico was charged with smuggling and selling steroids. Convicted of a felony a year later, he paid a $15,000 fine, served five years of probation and did 1,000 hours of community service, mostly speaking to kids about the perils of steroid use.

He acknowledges that his past has left him a broken man. Still, Larry Pacifico says he would live his life the same way, if given another chance.

"I would do it again because that's what I needed to win," he says. "Everybody was taking steroids. I know it sounds very nuts to you, but in those days that's what you had to do to keep up with the competition."

He lowers his clear, deep voice and whispers, "There's nothing like fame."
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Old 11-20-2009, 12:59 PM   #13
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Pacifico was a steroid user. In fact, his life is scarred by many steroid scandals.

Naturally, you really aren't getting much more then a hair over a raw 1600 total unless your juicing.

Some text on Pacifico, and his buddy Fitton...from Sports Illustrated



And a story about Pacifico and his son...
steroids or not, my point was that even with all of our modern "advancements" the training of the old guys still works
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Old 11-20-2009, 01:17 PM   #14
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steroids or not, my point was that even with all of our modern "advancements" the training of the old guys still works
The driving force behind the success of steroids is intense contractions. Any routine works on steroids, from Dorian Yates' style to Arnold's volume to Westside.

Of course, natural lifters play a different game...routine and exercise selection is very important for strength for 2 reasons:

A) Naturals have a more restricitve workout window.
B) Naturals train to stimulate the muscles, users train to stimulate and repair the receptors.

http://muscleandbrawn.com/forums/pro...kam-files.html

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MESO-Rx: Some studies show that taking androgen will greatly reduce the number of androgen receptors located in the muscles. This is said to be one of the major reasons why the average guy will not grow significant amounts of muscles while on steroids.

Dharkam: This is correct, when too much androgen is present in the blood, androgen receptor levels will decrease. But we have many studies showing that training a muscle will renew those receptors. This is why why there is a synergy between androgen and training in bodybuilders while steroids only work to a limited extent in untrained persons.
It's also important to note that certain steroids work better for strength.

True, these guys worked very hard and were genetically gifted. But when we talk steroid user, it's more the effort then the routine. Train hard, stay injury free, eat like a bear.
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Old 11-20-2009, 01:53 PM   #15
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Steroids or not, without the inclusion of modern support gear or high end chemical enhancement, you have to stand in awe of how difficult reaching these milestones must have been. When you look at old time strongmen, like Paul Anderson, and you realize that this guy got that strong without any modern convenience or assistance... well, it makes you wonder whether we really are making any advancements in training, or if we are just exploring more complex paths rather than "better" ones.
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Old 11-20-2009, 01:57 PM   #16
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Steroids or not, without the inclusion of modern support gear or high end chemical enhancement, you have to stand in awe of how difficult reaching these milestones must have been. When you look at old time strongmen, like Paul Anderson, and you realize that this guy got that strong without any modern convenience or assistance... well, it makes you wonder whether we really are making any advancements in training, or if we are just exploring more complex paths rather than "better" ones.
I agree completely, and that point actually lays side by side with mine.

Modern programs are more complex because "everything" works for a steroid user. Over the years, this has created training chaos, and a focus on complexity rather then hard work with the basics.
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Old 11-20-2009, 02:06 PM   #17
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I agree completely, and that point actually lays side by side with mine.

Modern programs are more complex because "everything" works for a steroid user. Over the years, this has created training chaos, and a focus on complexity rather then hard work with the basics.
I smell what you are stepping in, M&B.

I think there is a lot of variety that a natural athlete can undertake, but the ability to do "anything" and come out on top is an unreasonable expectation.

I was thinking yesterday, I wonder if steroid users CAN follow M&F type routines and make the kind of progress they describe... or if crap training really is crap training no matter how you slice it. I don't have the experience with steroids that others might have, neither by personal use or friends who use, so I'm a bit naive where this is concerned.
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Old 11-20-2009, 02:29 PM   #18
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I smell what you are stepping in, M&B.

I think there is a lot of variety that a natural athlete can undertake, but the ability to do "anything" and come out on top is an unreasonable expectation.
Nice post Andrew. I too am seriously underschooled in steroids, and all of the nuances of using them.

The bolded part is true. The sad thing is, most people don't understand that there is a difference between what a gear user can do, and what a natural should do. Even with the amount of flexability available to a natural, there is still parameters to work within for their best gains. To many work outside of these parameters, and fail, then wrongly label themselves as hardgainers, or quit.

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Old 11-20-2009, 03:11 PM   #19
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Still gotta have a strong foundation to build a huge house...just saying. If the scrawny kid next to me started juicin at the same time as me he would never catch me, I have the better foundation. Ill never be as strong as these guys even with gear.
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