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Old 02-16-2013, 04:38 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by jwood View Post
I agree with everything that was said above, but I have a suggestion for when you go for a max.

I would skip the set of 455, there is no need for it. Your set of 405 was perfect and you were ready to go. Work up to 90% and then go for a small pr. 445 is well over 95% of your previous max, your body is as warmed up as it will be at a set of 90%. This should save some energy.

Just my 2 cents
I agree with this. I know that most of us were taught to work our way up slowly when we are maxing, but you reach a certain point of strength were if you work up to slowly then you're going to tire yourself out. I've cut out many of my normal warm up sets as my lifts have gone up. Now 30-50lb jumps are the norm, whereas I used to stick to 10-20lb jumps when getting to higher numbers when trying to max.
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Old 02-16-2013, 06:45 PM   #12
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not in any position to give you advice, but just want to say that your form is excellent. it's always motivating to see people doing heavy squats to full depth.
also, this is a really productive squat thread; great suggestions in here. i'm sure you'll break that plateau no problem.
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Old 02-16-2013, 06:56 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Fazc View Post
Sets and reps don't really matter, the over emphasis on the details is how these programs inflate their self importance.

Basically the majority of your training should be roughly in and around the 80-90% range with a good amount of frequency (2-3 p/w) and volume (10-25 r/s). More volume means less frequency so it may be useful to measure in terms of weekly volume, however twice a week is rock bottom frequency.

Toward your peak, drop the volume and increase the intensity.

Aim to have peaks and troughs every month.

Each month do a little more.

These guidelines are as true for WSB as they are for linear progression. The rest YOU find out in the gym.
So leaning more towards instinctual stuff with maybe a rep goal for each week? Would something like squatting heavy Monday and Friday with maybe some speed sets on Wednesday work? MY recovery from squats pretty much sucks, so I would definitely have to work into it. The thing I worry most about squatting more than once a week is that it might affect my deadlift training (which I currently do on Tuesdays).
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Originally Posted by Squatter View Post
Form looks grteat Cade! Assuming diet is good, it must be routine. You may also wish to try Smolov either now or after what Steve & Fazc suggested. Ravi just completed it and added over 40 lbs to his squat.
Thanks Jim! I think I've worked out the kinks in my diet. I tried Smolov, and failed within the first week of the basic microcycle. My recovery is just not up to par unfortunately.
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Originally Posted by Soldier View Post
I make it a habit to never give advice to people who are stronger than me, but I'm going to have to break that habit for the moment. Of all the things you mentioned above, there's nothing about speed work. In order to upp your volume and/or frequency, you can't go heavy all the time. I like working off a box for speed stuff. I work with percentages around 70%, and try to feel like I'm attempting to push my feet through the floor as hard as possible when I do speed squats.

I also like to do jumps from the seated position on a box. I sit back just like a box squat, then lean forward, slam my feet into the ground, and push off, jumping as high as I can. I'll do sets of 3, resetting after every rep. This one doesn't sound like much, but it absolutely gets my quads and hips. I like to use 5x3 of these as a finisher on a speed day. I don't jump onto anything. Instead I just focus on pushing hard into the ground and contracting everything as fast and hard as possible. I usually only jump a few inches off of the ground.

Good luck! Not progressing SUCKS. I'm sure you'll break through eventually.
Advice can come from every strength range, thank you for yours! I like the idea of focusing on explosiveness, and I will (hopefully) start trying to work in speed work now.
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Originally Posted by jdmalm123 View Post
Two points I'll make that may apply...

Consider dropping/reducing anything that isn't directly related to your primary goal. Do you want absolute strength in big lifts (for now) or do you want a little bit of everything? I'd suggest you'll need all focus and energy to go into your squat until you bump it up.

Also, smaller jumps. A 5 lb jump at your level is significant...you could even consider micro plates. Get 460 before you get 465. It ill also help your mental game.

I tend to agree with increasing squat frequency as well.

Your form is excellent so it is just a matter of time.
Actually, I decided recently that pushing numbers on just the big 3 kind of gets depressing for me - so I like to try and keep things fun (though not progressing sucks every more so, hence the thread). I'm pretty happy with where I am on my deadlift and bench, so I agree I will definitely be devoting more energy into pushing my squat up. Thank you for the ideas!

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1morerep View Post
The bar is high; Lower the bar on your back about 1.5 in & work your mid-section. Every time that you try to go up your upper body is making resistance and want to bend forward. You can add some vest weight box jump. That will give you explosive power at the bottom. Don't train heavy every day, give your body rest. Check for results every (3) weeks. Other than that, you actually squatting to more than depth and breaking parallel. Looks good. Good job!
Thank you very much. I've gotten the box work on more than one suggestion, so I will be trying it for sure (recovery permitting). As far as bar height, believe it or not that is actually my "Deltoid shelf" or whatever Rippetoe calls it when he instructs how to squat low bar. If I went any lower I believe the bar would just roll down.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwood View Post
I agree with everything that was said above, but I have a suggestion for when you go for a max.

I would skip the set of 455, there is no need for it. Your set of 405 was perfect and you were ready to go. Work up to 90% and then go for a small pr. 445 is well over 95% of your previous max, your body is as warmed up as it will be at a set of 90%. This should save some energy.

Just my 2 cents
Thanks for this. Honestly, I was terrified to try breaking the PR immediately. I thought it was super important to have a "milestone" between 405 and 455...I'll definitely keep this in mind.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soldier View Post
I agree with this. I know that most of us were taught to work our way up slowly when we are maxing, but you reach a certain point of strength were if you work up to slowly then you're going to tire yourself out. I've cut out many of my normal warm up sets as my lifts have gone up. Now 30-50lb jumps are the norm, whereas I used to stick to 10-20lb jumps when getting to higher numbers when trying to max.
Duly noted, thank you!
Quote:
Originally Posted by SecondsOut View Post
not in any position to give you advice, but just want to say that your form is excellent. it's always motivating to see people doing heavy squats to full depth.
also, this is a really productive squat thread; great suggestions in here. i'm sure you'll break that plateau no problem.
Again, advice can come from everywhere! Thank you very much for the encouragement!
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Old 02-16-2013, 07:13 PM   #14
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Great technique but if you did that 465 lb miss in front if me I would kick you in the balls and make you take it again. You had that weight if you fought through it. I'm not going to comment on what program to use other than to say that the best thing you can do is figure out how to program for yourself. I dont know enough about your training, work capacity or what exercises have or have not worked for you so that would be where i would start if i were you. I think you could benefit from suspended or pin good mornings for heavy sets of five. Maybe even do them against band tension or chains. This should teach you how to grind and work the areas where your squat is weakest.
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Old 02-16-2013, 07:18 PM   #15
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On the low bar thing, you actually could go much lower on your hold. I've done lots of experimenting with it, and got quite low at one point. BUT, I ended up moving it back up to the natural shelf across my shoulders. I found that being forced to bend over more with a low bar hold just put more stress on my groin muscles at the bottom, and didn't really help my lift.

I guess my point is that you could move lower, but you'd probably just end up back up where you are anyways, haha.
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Old 02-16-2013, 07:44 PM   #16
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Great technique but if you did that 465 lb miss in front if me I would kick you in the balls and make you take it again. You had that weight if you fought through it. I'm not going to comment on what program to use other than to say that the best thing you can do is figure out how to program for yourself. I dont know enough about your training, work capacity or what exercises have or have not worked for you so that would be where i would start if i were you. I think you could benefit from suspended or pin good mornings for heavy sets of five. Maybe even do them against band tension or chains. This should teach you how to grind and work the areas where your squat is weakest.
Remind me to never PR attempt in front of you haha! I agree though, it does look like an attempt that should have succeeded. I've read elsewhere that extreme posterior work, such as good mornings, weren't really conducive to a better raw squat because of the narrower stance and increased quad dominance. Again, though, this is only reading. Do you consider something like a pin good morning good just because it would make someone (me) grind at the sticking point? I've wondered more than once at trying to work in a partial range of motion thing like an Anderson squat. Thank you for the advice!
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Originally Posted by Soldier View Post
On the low bar thing, you actually could go much lower on your hold. I've done lots of experimenting with it, and got quite low at one point. BUT, I ended up moving it back up to the natural shelf across my shoulders. I found that being forced to bend over more with a low bar hold just put more stress on my groin muscles at the bottom, and didn't really help my lift.

I guess my point is that you could move lower, but you'd probably just end up back up where you are anyways, haha.
Fair enough haha.

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Old 02-16-2013, 09:35 PM   #17
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It's a figure of speech. I don't know where you read that but you can do good mornings with different stances. I would just use your normal squat stance and set the bar around belly button height. If you've never done them bottom up style they will suck the first time out.

Also if your recovery sucks keep that in mind when figuring out what to do next. My best gains have come with more rest not more training. If you want to build up to training squat more frequently start doing a light squat variation on deadlift day as assistance and see how you react. You may also have some luck squatting 455 to a above parallel box just to get that number out of your head.
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Old 02-16-2013, 10:11 PM   #18
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I'm going to go against the grain here and point out a technique issue. At least it seems to be an issue to me. Looks like your chest is caved the entire time. You start out with your upper back rounded and it appears to be what causes you to fail on the PR attempt. I recently doscovered how much difference there is in my squat performance if i can manage to keep my chest up.

Watch the "so you think you can squat" video series by elite fts. They address this exact thing and reccommend safety squat bar seated gm for the guy they're working with.

Just my 2 pesos...
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Old 02-16-2013, 11:26 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by ehubbard View Post
It's a figure of speech. I don't know where you read that but you can do good mornings with different stances. I would just use your normal squat stance and set the bar around belly button height. If you've never done them bottom up style they will suck the first time out.

Also if your recovery sucks keep that in mind when figuring out what to do next. My best gains have come with more rest not more training. If you want to build up to training squat more frequently start doing a light squat variation on deadlift day as assistance and see how you react. You may also have some luck squatting 455 to a above parallel box just to get that number out of your head.
I believe the article I was talking about was on TNation, though I can't remember the specific author. The author was comparing heavy posterior work for the raw squat to working with bands and chains for the raw bench press. He (I believe it was a he) was just saying that, while the exercise would be beneficial since all exercises are, a raw squatter might not experience the same benefits with good mornings as a geared squatter. Again, just one man's opinions.

I have done volume squats before on my deadlift days, and since the theme seems to be working in some frequency, I'll probably go back to this. It was comfortable before.

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Originally Posted by Disciple X View Post
I'm going to go against the grain here and point out a technique issue. At least it seems to be an issue to me. Looks like your chest is caved the entire time. You start out with your upper back rounded and it appears to be what causes you to fail on the PR attempt. I recently doscovered how much difference there is in my squat performance if i can manage to keep my chest up.

Watch the "so you think you can squat" video series by elite fts. They address this exact thing and reccommend safety squat bar seated gm for the guy they're working with.

Just my 2 pesos...
I can see what you're getting at with respect to the final attempt. I don't really have anyone to squat with that knows technique, hence the video camera haha. I have watched, and enjoyed, all of the "so you think you can ..." series from elitefts. Also the second vote for some good mornings...Guess I'll be throwing these into the mix at some point. Thank you for the advice!
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Old 02-18-2013, 06:25 AM   #20
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So leaning more towards instinctual stuff with maybe a rep goal for each week? Would something like squatting heavy Monday and Friday with maybe some speed sets on Wednesday work? MY recovery from squats pretty much sucks, so I would definitely have to work into it. The thing I worry most about squatting more than once a week is that it might affect my deadlift training (which I currently do on Tuesdays).
It doesn't have to be instinctual. Just plan out a 3-4 week ramp up where you do higher volume work at around 80% and plan to end the 3rd or 4th week doing attempting some PR's.

In regards to pulls, I generally pull as often as I squat (3-4 p/w) so my opinion would be to do it like that. Again with some forward planning and/or some restraint you can lift frequently. But you can't kill yourself every time, plan to peak every 4-8 weeks only. The rest of the time is building work.

Also I think resorting to box work and low bar squatting would be a step backwards for you.
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