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Old 01-13-2013, 10:52 PM   #11
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Not an expert I wll say very forcefully, but if I was going full on sumo, I'd make sure I had some conventional stiff leg deadlifts in there pretty heavy too.

Sumo to me, you sort of squat the weight off the floor, then it's just grip and hip and back to finish.

But, bottom line is deadlifts are a low back exercise. At the end of the day, you have to strengthen the low back and if the full on exercise isn't doing it, then the assistance should be the hardest thing for it their is.

For me, stiffs are the hardest low back exercise there is. If RDLs are hardest on your low back for you, then go for it, but that is not my experience.

Again, just my .02
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Old 01-13-2013, 11:41 PM   #12
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If I need to I'll add SLDL, like them but my con. deads were sometimes close to SLDL . My lower back gets worked in many of my lifts for whatever reason. If when doing sumos I get the feeling my low back needs more work I'll toss them in . Thanks Mike
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Old 01-14-2013, 04:18 AM   #13
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The best deadlifters deadlift a LOT. They do sumo and conventional, pull from the floor, rack, deficit, snatch grip, do power cleans, high pulls, etc

I am kind of in the same position as you: I am unsure which way to pull so I'm just doing both. What's the worst that could happen?
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Old 01-14-2013, 04:30 AM   #14
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Even if you were to pull Sumo in competition I probably wouldn't do the majority of your training with Sumo, I'd keep SLDL (done heavy) as your main assistance. Certainly if your form needs work and you KNOW what you're trying to work on then fine, drill the Sumo. That's a key point as well, people talk about drilling volume on a lift to correct form BUT if they don't actually know what in the hell they're trying to correct then it's futile. But I see that all too often.

For the majority of your pulling I'd smash the crap out of the SLDL.
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Old 01-14-2013, 10:21 AM   #15
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I would agree with you Josh, although I think the RDL's are more of a hammy stretch exercise, but likely help as you are lifting weight off of a floor like a deadlift. Sumo is of course allowed at meets and I think it involves more quads/lower body than conventional. I also think the ROM is less than that of a conventional. I also think Sumo is becoming more and more popular. Many guys on the Crew pull Sumo. I also think pulling both styles is likely a good idea if possible as my common sense is telling me they compliment each other.

I am all of a sudden getting the itch to start pulling more Sumo!
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Old 01-14-2013, 10:24 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LtL View Post
The best deadlifters deadlift a LOT. They do sumo and conventional, pull from the floor, rack, deficit, snatch grip, do power cleans, high pulls, etc

I am kind of in the same position as you: I am unsure which way to pull so I'm just doing both. What's the worst that could happen?
I don't see a down side

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fazc View Post
Even if you were to pull Sumo in competition I probably wouldn't do the majority of your training with Sumo, I'd keep SLDL (done heavy) as your main assistance. Certainly if your form needs work and you KNOW what you're trying to work on then fine, drill the Sumo. That's a key point as well, people talk about drilling volume on a lift to correct form BUT if they don't actually know what in the hell they're trying to correct then it's futile. But I see that all too often.

For the majority of your pulling I'd smash the crap out of the SLDL.
Well I've done more, and done less pullin conventional. My set up position is or seems different every pull. My biggest problem is hips rising up first or too fast and basically RDLing it up. I'm going to continue to work on it, but I liked the way Sumos felt. It felt very natural to me like that's the way to lift. I'm not experienced enough or smart enough to know all my issues or problems. But definetly want give Sumos a run for awhile. Seems most are saying to do SLDL so I'll do those and do conventional pulls also or on a different day. My head limits me on how much I can accomplish in each session, but I'll see how it goes.
Thanks!
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Old 01-14-2013, 10:26 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Squatter View Post
I would agree with you Josh, although I think the RDL's are more of a hammy stretch exercise, but likely help as you are lifting weight off of a floor like a deadlift. Sumo is of course allowed at meets and I think it involves more quads/lower body than conventional. I also think the ROM is less than that of a conventional. I also think Sumo is becoming more and more popular. Many guys on the Crew pull Sumo. I also think pulling both styles is likely a good idea if possible as my common sense is telling me they compliment each other.

I am all of a sudden getting the itch to start pulling more Sumo!
With regards to the ROM, I know it wasn't, but it felt like it was cut in half or 2/3 . Guessing it was only an inch or so, but it felt like a foot!
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Old 01-16-2013, 01:03 AM   #18
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I forgot I never updated this thread, fun memory issues thanks to my head! Anyhow thanks for everyone's help, things went pretty well. Here's my log entry...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunterace View Post
I've been waiting to feel good enough to test Sumo, and figured I'd give it a run. Legs were still sore, but overall I felt pretty good, which is great for me. Didn't know if I'd try maxing but figured I'd do a few pulls and see how I felt. Things felt ok, so I went for it! Form broke down on max, no shock, but it felt way easier than when I pulled conventional, by a TON! Since Steve and Erin were the only ones to see my conventional 405 pull it's hard to say if it was better form or not, but it felt easier. Was going to pull another time for an all time PR, but I watched the vid of my last one and form was pretty aweful so just settled with what I accomplished and was happy. Unlike after conventional pulling, I don't even feel like I lifted today! I like me some SUMO'S!!!
*
1-14-13
Some Sumo Deadlift and Max
Warm Up, nothing
*
Sumo Deadlift
135x 5
225x 2
315x 1 PR ...vid
405x 1 PR ...vid, form went to crap, but I lifted it and it was much easier than conventional. I have little doubt that I can make much better strides with sumo than conventional. Not giving up on conventional though!
*
Vids
*
315x 1 PR
MAH01253 - YouTube
*
405x 1 PR
MAH01254 - YouTube
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Old 01-16-2013, 04:40 AM   #19
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Well I see a downside, you can only learn so many movement patterns successfuly in a (hopefully) short period of time. Decide which you're going for and nail it.

For you Hunter I'd say you do want to drill Sumo a lot, and potentially moreso than SLDL. Your form isn't strong enough yet that you could justify doing many (or even any) assistance exercises.

Looking at those videos, you seem to know in your mind what the right position is, but as you pull your body pulls you out of the right groove to complete the lift. So for you in this case, drilling the actual lift over and over will work.

BUT ONLY if the form is perfect. Practice doesn't make perfect, perfect practice makes perfect.

Drill Sumo, at a weight you can MAINTAIN that arch you begin with and build up from there.
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Old 01-16-2013, 07:47 AM   #20
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I just recently transitioned to sumo. A fantastic lifter from NFLD, Canada (he actually won best lifter at IPF Master Worlds, not just his weight class, but best lifter overall) and his crew suggested I try it out.

I've found myself agreeing a lot with what Fazc and others have said in this thread. Good deadlifters deadlift a LOT. In fact, good raw lifters hit their lifts very very often, drilling PERFECT form in every single time. I had not used anything more than what I considered 90% of my sumo max for the 3 months leading up to my meet and pulled a 2.5kg meet PB with plenty in the tank (so a PB AND it was with a different technique).

Lower your training max to something that you can pull with PERFECT technique, and then start working away at lots of volume of that. Preferably, though, lots of sets and not too many reps. anything between 65 and 80% of this new PERFECT max will be great for you. As things start to feel more natural and you can move up, do so. As Facz just said, perfect practice makes perfect. You don't need assistance work, you need to drill this movement pattern in.
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