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Old 11-10-2012, 08:50 AM   #1
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Default Don't do shitty rows.

Very good points here.

From lift run bang LIFT-RUN-BANG

Quote:
Post on Pendlays
Since all you nancy boys are complaining about the music being too loud.


Don't do shitty rows. The whole point of the ****ing row is to work your rhomboids and mid-back, with the lats to a lesser degree. When you start using cheating and english you turn it into a mini-deadlift/shrug. This is fine if you want to work the low back and traps....oh wait, that's what the ****ing deadlift is for! Use the row for what it is supposed to be used for.
You don't need to use much weight to properly work the rhomboids and mid-back. The row, regardless of what you have read or been told, is not a "power" or "strength" movement where a shit ton of weight has to be piled on for it to be effective. I don't know of a single ****ing event in strongman or powerlifting where they ask you to do a row for a single. The truck pull would be closest and guess what, they have to do a lot of "reps" in that shit.
If you think I'm wrong, try this. Drop your hips lower and raise your chest and use some english/momentum to do the row. Do your first set this way. After that, keep your hips high and your torso parallel to the ground, arch your back hard on the pull and use no momentum. Which one did you feel the entire midback contract hardest on? That's the point. Working the mid-back. NOT your ego. I can do rows with 405 if I want, just as shitty as you please. It would serve zero purpose.
When in doubt, go lighter.
Notice the sweet arch I get on the pull. This is key to getting a full contract in the back on a row, chin, or pulldown. If the weight is too heavy, you won't be able to arch hard. You will start raising your torso to either initiate or finish the movement. Again, go lighter and work the actual back. Not your ego.
Back to the arch, this is another reason to stay light on the row. If you are squatting and pulling heavy in the same week, and are being stupid about your weight on your rows, the low back just takes more of a beating. When I am squatting and pulling heavy I actually prefer to go to a db row, or chest supported row. The low back takes a long time to recover. It's my belief that a fatigued low back is what causes a lot of guys to think they have that broscience bullshit of "CNS burnout". The low back and hips are the REAL core of your body. When it is fatigued (muscularly) you are going to notice a significant drop in strength on the big movements. That area needs to recover. The squat and pull provide plenty of stimulation for the erectors, so there's no need to pile on even more with heavy shit rows. Truth is, you could throw a single plate on each side and do some sets of 20, getting plenty of work in for the back without killing the low back. I know a 900 pound deadlifter who does this.
Cliff notes for doing the row this way -
Hips high
Pull with the elbows and squeeze the mid-back
Pull to around right below the chest.
Once you stop feeling the contracting in the mid-back, and start throwing in body english reduce the weight. You should always be able to squeeze everything together back there and feel a strong contraction.
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Old 11-10-2012, 01:09 PM   #2
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Awesome. Most rows I see, and how I used to do them, are some mix of an upright pull and a shrug combined with humping of the bar. Maybe it's doing something for them, but probably not much or what they're wanting. I only row dumb bells anymore.

I also completely agree with db's when SQ and DL are in the same week. Last time I tried any type of bar row after dl...I just had to quit.
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Old 11-10-2012, 01:23 PM   #3
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Great article. I encourage everyone to watch the video too, but don't complain about the music!
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Old 11-10-2012, 01:34 PM   #4
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Well in the most diplomatic way possible, I agree and disagree. Both strict and sloppy rows have their uses, use them appropriately.
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Old 11-10-2012, 03:41 PM   #5
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Yes, Coan was a proponent for heavy looser style bent over rows, especially to build the deadlift. He doesnt have a blog but he did okay!
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Old 11-10-2012, 04:37 PM   #6
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I can go heavy, explode and feel a good contraction. All done without using the near-upright mini-twitches that often pass as rows. I think too many people baby the row, and far too many do them incorrectly. I treat rows with the attention to form detail just like I do any other lift.

The way I look at rows...A few inches of body movement isn't something I consider to be body English. The last few inches of the row always seem more explosive to me, and because of this acceleration, I find my torso moves up a few inches.

I do find that under 5 reps my speed tends to drop, and they do get a bit sloppy in the sense that I lose speed and contraction intensity. With this said, even rowing 405 with a "slow" (and strict) pull requires an incredible amount of explosiveness.

At the end of the day I'm trying to build strength, not feel a contraction. So I tend not to worry if I lose that feel on heavy rows.

I don't know if any of this makes sense.
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Old 11-10-2012, 07:54 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by big_swede View Post
Very good points here.

From lift run bang LIFT-RUN-BANG
great read, swede.

If anything, it has helped me re-analyze why I do the barbell row...
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Old 11-11-2012, 03:12 AM   #8
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I added supported Chest Rows years ago. When my lower back as taken a beating. I go supported. When unsupported the last couple of Reps with body english is just like forced reps. ASLONG AS IT"S NOT OVER DONE. Still have to be smart about it.
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Old 11-15-2012, 02:48 PM   #9
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How Ed Coan REALLY did rows - YouTube
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Old 11-15-2012, 11:15 PM   #10
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Ed Coan and LBR:

LIFT-RUN-BANG: Ed Coan's response on rows

Quote:
Ed,

Dumbest argument ever, but a lot of guys are claiming that you did rows sloppy, and some guys wrote that you did heavy rows with very strict form. Could I get some insight on if you did both at various times or preferred one style of barbell rowing to the other?

Thanks!
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From Ed.....

A little of both. I always felt that if I did them too strict, I only felt it in my arms from pulling with them too much. I pictured them like a rower in a boat. The movement stretches more and is a little safer. It worked for me!! Hope this answers your question. Take care, Eddy

So before I even asked Ed, my take was........."The thing that may be applied here is that Ed may have done strict rows before, and sloppy rows later, or sloppy rows before and strict rows later."

The other thing I learned about arguing is before you go telling someone they are "talking out of their ass" you better go to the source first.

Ed did both.
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