Muscle and Brawn Forums
 

Go Back   Muscle and Brawn Forums > Training > Powerlifting & Strength Training
Mark Forums Read
Register Articles Members List Search Today's Posts

Notices

Powerlifting & Strength Training Topics related to powerlifting and strength training.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-10-2012, 09:57 AM   #1
BendtheBar
Bearded Beast of Duloc
Max Brawn
Points: 1,554,481, Level: 100 Points: 1,554,481, Level: 100 Points: 1,554,481, Level: 100
Activity: 49% Activity: 49% Activity: 49%
 
BendtheBar's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 80,910
Training Exp: 20+ years
Training Type: Powerbuilding
Fav Exercise: Deadlift
Fav Supp: Butter
Reputation: 2581830
BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!
Default Squat - hips back before squatting

I see guys moving their hips back before they initiate the squat, and leaning more forward. 9 times out of 10 then end up with a more good-morning style squat because of it.

Who are people picking this up from? I see it far too frequently for it to be random.

Here is an example. It's a mild one. Many are much more exaggerated with greater forward lean.

__________________
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Destroy That Which Destroys You

"Let bravery be thy choice, but not bravado."



Last edited by BendtheBar; 09-10-2012 at 09:59 AM.
BendtheBar is online now   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 09-10-2012, 10:05 AM   #2
RobMoriRB
Senior Member
Max Brawn
Points: 10,240, Level: 67 Points: 10,240, Level: 67 Points: 10,240, Level: 67
Activity: 60% Activity: 60% Activity: 60%
 
RobMoriRB's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: London, Ontario Canada
Posts: 3,964
Training Exp: 3
Training Type: Powerlifting
Fav Exercise: Squat
Fav Supp: Mutant Mass
Reputation: 131622
RobMoriRB is a master memberRobMoriRB is a master memberRobMoriRB is a master memberRobMoriRB is a master memberRobMoriRB is a master memberRobMoriRB is a master memberRobMoriRB is a master memberRobMoriRB is a master memberRobMoriRB is a master memberRobMoriRB is a master memberRobMoriRB is a master member
Default

they are going to tear something pretty bad, which is bad to say....Someone needs to get their trainers slapped around
__________________
Nov. 16th DDAY- Planned Attempts
Squat: 385/405/? lbs
Bench: 295/315/?
Dead Lift:455/500/?

Master Goal: Compete in 1 Lifting Sport!!! Completed Nov 16th 2014


Block Program:http://www.muscleandbrawn.com/forums...ad.php?t=17576
BLOG:http://theanimalmethod.wordpress.com/
RobMoriRB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2012, 10:24 AM   #3
Off Road
Senior Member
Max Brawn
Points: 17,091, Level: 83 Points: 17,091, Level: 83 Points: 17,091, Level: 83
Activity: 1% Activity: 1% Activity: 1%
 
Off Road's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 7,607
Reputation: 786994
Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!
Default

My opinion...

Starting the hips back at the start of the squat is fine.
Letting the hips rise first on the way up is BAD juju.
Off Road is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2012, 11:04 AM   #4
BendtheBar
Bearded Beast of Duloc
Max Brawn
Points: 1,554,481, Level: 100 Points: 1,554,481, Level: 100 Points: 1,554,481, Level: 100
Activity: 49% Activity: 49% Activity: 49%
 
BendtheBar's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 80,910
Training Exp: 20+ years
Training Type: Powerbuilding
Fav Exercise: Deadlift
Fav Supp: Butter
Reputation: 2581830
BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!
Default

My issue isn't so much with the hips going back, but the resulting starting position of the squat. Most of the time the head is moved forward, and with it the barbell moves forward past the center of the foot.
__________________
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Destroy That Which Destroys You

"Let bravery be thy choice, but not bravado."


BendtheBar is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2012, 11:11 AM   #5
kitarpyar
Senior Member
Max Brawn
Points: 23,931, Level: 94 Points: 23,931, Level: 94 Points: 23,931, Level: 94
Activity: 50% Activity: 50% Activity: 50%
 
kitarpyar's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,723
Training Type: Fullbody
Fav Exercise: Deadlift
Reputation: 121086
kitarpyar is a master memberkitarpyar is a master memberkitarpyar is a master memberkitarpyar is a master memberkitarpyar is a master memberkitarpyar is a master memberkitarpyar is a master memberkitarpyar is a master memberkitarpyar is a master memberkitarpyar is a master memberkitarpyar is a master member
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BendtheBar View Post
My issue isn't so much with the hips going back, but the resulting starting position of the squat. Most of the time the head is moved forward, and with it the barbell moves forward past the center of the foot.

I tried to squat yesterday with the hips set back. It almost automatically resulted in the head going forward. I noticed it in the first couple of reps and reverted back to my earlier stance. It takes a pretty conscious effort for those not used to this, to get in the starting position with an appropriate curvature of the spine instead of leaning forward.

I believe a lot of this could be due to Ripp's videos, where he asks the lifters to lock their lumbar in a good position - often involves the hips going back. This advice then ends up getting distorted. For the uninitiated (happened to me), who dont know how to get their spine in the proper position, the set up could get messed up, since instead of sticking the butt out in proper position, its quite easy to end up leaning a bit forward. Hope I am making some sense, lol.

Going down to lighter weights, this is one of the things I am working on.
kitarpyar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2012, 01:22 PM   #6
5kgLifter
Kettlebells' Angel !!!!
Max Brawn
Points: 23,645, Level: 94 Points: 23,645, Level: 94 Points: 23,645, Level: 94
Activity: 11% Activity: 11% Activity: 11%
 
5kgLifter's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 13,928
Training Type: Other
Reputation: 646483
5kgLifter is one with Crom!5kgLifter is one with Crom!5kgLifter is one with Crom!5kgLifter is one with Crom!5kgLifter is one with Crom!5kgLifter is one with Crom!5kgLifter is one with Crom!5kgLifter is one with Crom!5kgLifter is one with Crom!5kgLifter is one with Crom!5kgLifter is one with Crom!
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kitarpyar View Post
I believe a lot of this could be due to Ripp's videos, where he asks the lifters to lock their lumbar in a good position -
I agree, Rippetoe also insists the elbows are raised at the back in order to shove the barbell into the back which is also very predominant in a lot of lifters. It wasn't until this past few months that I saw that positioning to be incorrect but Rippetoe advocates it in his DVDs, and is forever seen pulling people's elbows up and back at the start of their squat set-up.
__________________
36.5 kg /80.3 lb Middle-Finger DL (right hand)...
5kgLifter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2012, 01:33 PM   #7
5kgLifter
Kettlebells' Angel !!!!
Max Brawn
Points: 23,645, Level: 94 Points: 23,645, Level: 94 Points: 23,645, Level: 94
Activity: 11% Activity: 11% Activity: 11%
 
5kgLifter's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 13,928
Training Type: Other
Reputation: 646483
5kgLifter is one with Crom!5kgLifter is one with Crom!5kgLifter is one with Crom!5kgLifter is one with Crom!5kgLifter is one with Crom!5kgLifter is one with Crom!5kgLifter is one with Crom!5kgLifter is one with Crom!5kgLifter is one with Crom!5kgLifter is one with Crom!5kgLifter is one with Crom!
Default


__________________
36.5 kg /80.3 lb Middle-Finger DL (right hand)...
5kgLifter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2012, 01:56 PM   #8
BendtheBar
Bearded Beast of Duloc
Max Brawn
Points: 1,554,481, Level: 100 Points: 1,554,481, Level: 100 Points: 1,554,481, Level: 100
Activity: 49% Activity: 49% Activity: 49%
 
BendtheBar's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 80,910
Training Exp: 20+ years
Training Type: Powerbuilding
Fav Exercise: Deadlift
Fav Supp: Butter
Reputation: 2581830
BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 5kgLifter View Post
I agree, Rippetoe also insists the elbows are raised at the back in order to shove the barbell into the back which is also very predominant in a lot of lifters. It wasn't until this past few months that I saw that positioning to be incorrect but Rippetoe advocates it in his DVDs, and is forever seen pulling people's elbows up and back at the start of their squat set-up.
I personally think it's a pretty complex topic. It's hard to force the elbows back and up without getting more forward lean. But it can be done. A lot of novices will fly their elbows up, keep their upper backs too loose and inadvertently lean more forward. The result is more of a good morning type squat.

All I want to see in a squat are tight elbows that move very little. This generally indicates that the upper back is staying tight. If you watch videos of high rep sets, you'll generally notice these 2 trends on plenty of them:

1) Reps start to get less upright over time.
2) Elbows slowly creep higher and higher on each rep.

A lifter has to concentrate on keeping the upper back tight, and part of this is locking the elbows tight and in place. Things have to stay tight. When they aren't form goes to heck.

Tight elbows/back are certainly not a cure all, but they have to be a focus.
__________________
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Destroy That Which Destroys You

"Let bravery be thy choice, but not bravado."



Last edited by BendtheBar; 09-12-2012 at 10:40 AM.
BendtheBar is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2012, 02:02 PM   #9
5kgLifter
Kettlebells' Angel !!!!
Max Brawn
Points: 23,645, Level: 94 Points: 23,645, Level: 94 Points: 23,645, Level: 94
Activity: 11% Activity: 11% Activity: 11%
 
5kgLifter's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 13,928
Training Type: Other
Reputation: 646483
5kgLifter is one with Crom!5kgLifter is one with Crom!5kgLifter is one with Crom!5kgLifter is one with Crom!5kgLifter is one with Crom!5kgLifter is one with Crom!5kgLifter is one with Crom!5kgLifter is one with Crom!5kgLifter is one with Crom!5kgLifter is one with Crom!5kgLifter is one with Crom!
Default

It wasn't until I did some reading and found out that it's not really about elbow positioning so much as it is about scapular positioning that I started to have decent squat form; it was an eye-opener for me. And to think, prior to that, I probably looked though I was using poor form as well due to the must keep those elbows high with tight back instruction that I had followed up to that point.

Once I took on the scapular positioning theory/stance everything flowed and squats became much easier.
__________________
36.5 kg /80.3 lb Middle-Finger DL (right hand)...
5kgLifter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2012, 11:16 AM   #10
ravimolasaria
Senior Member
Max Brawn
Points: 27,548, Level: 98 Points: 27,548, Level: 98 Points: 27,548, Level: 98
Activity: 100% Activity: 100% Activity: 100%
 
ravimolasaria's Avatar
 

Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: India
Posts: 16,697
Training Exp: 10
Training Type: ARGH!!!
Fav Exercise: Squats
Fav Supp: Whatever makes me strong
Reputation: 993613
ravimolasaria is one with Crom!ravimolasaria is one with Crom!ravimolasaria is one with Crom!ravimolasaria is one with Crom!ravimolasaria is one with Crom!ravimolasaria is one with Crom!ravimolasaria is one with Crom!ravimolasaria is one with Crom!ravimolasaria is one with Crom!ravimolasaria is one with Crom!ravimolasaria is one with Crom!
Default

one of the main causes of lower back injury ...
__________________
My Log
ravimolasaria is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
back, hips, squat, squatting


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
64 yr old with arthritis in hips wesrman General Fitness & Health 15 07-08-2011 02:36 PM
How to Squat ☆ Squat Tip #3 - Setting the Lower Back BendtheBar Video Compilations 0 05-30-2011 05:35 PM
Mark Rippetoe: Back Squat Geometry Pt. 1 BendtheBar Video Compilations 0 05-08-2011 09:57 PM
Front Squat vs Back Squats bamazav General Fitness & Health 2 03-28-2011 03:12 PM

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:03 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.