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Old 09-10-2012, 05:27 PM   #21
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Default Rippetoe (Starting Strength Madcow 5x5) VS Louie (Westside Method)

Starting Strength - Great functional strength training form but absolutely horrible training method for anyone who is not a pure novice.

Westside Method - Worst form in the world totally relying on gear leverage, gear support and gear mentality, but effective training method if the main principles are dissected and not distorted i.e, actually read Russian training manuals and periodization. Use the conjugate method to alternate movements but only for your assistance movements and program your cycles as if you’re not on drugs and using super supports all the time and you will get decent strength gains.
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Old 09-10-2012, 05:29 PM   #22
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Last rant. If you can not Zombie Squat, you can not Squat. If you can not front squat you can not squat well.
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Old 09-10-2012, 05:32 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BendtheBar View Post
I can't squat toes in, wide stance.

I also am not a fan of beginning lifters getting all squat funkadelic and trying things like this before they build a strong base. I'd rather see them work with a natural stance, improve form and build a strength base.

But hey, I'm just a grumpy old man, so mileage may vary.
No this is sort of an advanced thing that they are trying to recoup more muscle fire. Not something someone that isnt an elite lifter should be messing with!
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Old 09-10-2012, 05:38 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Bodybygamma View Post
You can thank Westside and Supertrainingand all the geared lifters alike who can't raw squat for $hit who advocate breaking out their hips so they can dunk into there suit and let the suit do the whole negative phase.
You think the guys at Westside cant squat raw?

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Originally Posted by Bodybygamma View Post
Last rant. If you can not Zombie Squat, you can not Squat. If you can not front squat you can not squat well.
Cant front squat

I teach everyone the hips should break back first, the problem you see from these guys are 2 things. One, their foot placement looks bad, knees coming in, and two they are over exaggerating the hips back.
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Old 09-10-2012, 06:12 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by J_Byrd View Post
No this is sort of an advanced thing that they are trying to recoup more muscle fire. Not something someone that isnt an elite lifter should be messing with!
Glad I'm not insane then. It drives me cuckoo when I see younger lifters trying to complicate the squat.
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Old 09-10-2012, 08:33 PM   #26
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I always start by pushing my hips back. I think that it helps to get my low back arch and maintain that arch for a squat. Right, wrong, or indifferent, that how I do it and I think my squat form is pretty money.
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Old 09-10-2012, 09:07 PM   #27
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Default I won't take a shot at a brand without something to back it up

[QUOTE=J_Byrd;275590]You think the guys at Westside cant squat raw?
QUOTE]
All the ones that can are Former-Westside barbell guys. Although I really meant to take a cheap shot at supertraining.

"Phil Harrington made a 755 raw squat at 198 pounds, breaking Tony Fratto’s record of 749 in 1972" taken from

Top Five Deadlifts

so in 30+ years a world record raw squat is beat by 6lbs by a former westside guy". I am not saying westside guys couldn't raw squat world records or be strong raw lifters, but what I am saying is they are like every other marketing brand who lift only in their own feds, with there own rules and there own ways. Show me 5 westside lifters with raw world records in more then one fed and I will retract my statement about their methods for the strong raw drug-free lifter even though the last one doesn't apply for them.

Meanwhile you have guys like Sam Byrd who hold multiple records and heavy squats both geared and raw:

"Big Byrd12-11-07, 12:23 am
I do not train like a powerlifter i suppose. I dont do the westside barbell training or use any bands or chains or boards. I dont do speed training or box squats or any of those things most powerlifters hold so sacred. I dont even train in my gear, at all. I just hit a number 4 weeks out and gauge my openers on that.
"

The Byrd Cage [Archive] - the F O R V M
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Old 09-10-2012, 09:56 PM   #28
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I just pretend I'm sitting on the toilet. I sit back, not down. Somebody once said, "(Poop) on the floor, not on your shoes." I take that to mean: feet fairly wide, toes slightly out, hips break first.
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Old 09-11-2012, 01:02 AM   #29
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Some starter athletes misunderstand the meaning of "squat like you are sitting on a chair or a toilet". Hence they tend to keep their hips more than out during squatting leading to lower back injury.
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Old 09-11-2012, 06:24 AM   #30
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[quote=Bodybygamma;275646]
Quote:
Originally Posted by J_Byrd View Post
You think the guys at Westside cant squat raw?
QUOTE]
All the ones that can are Former-Westside barbell guys. Although I really meant to take a cheap shot at supertraining.

"Phil Harrington made a 755 raw squat at 198 pounds, breaking Tony Fratto’s record of 749 in 1972" taken from

Top Five Deadlifts

so in 30+ years a world record raw squat is beat by 6lbs by a former westside guy". I am not saying westside guys couldn't raw squat world records or be strong raw lifters, but what I am saying is they are like every other marketing brand who lift only in their own feds, with there own rules and there own ways. Show me 5 westside lifters with raw world records in more then one fed and I will retract my statement about their methods for the strong raw drug-free lifter even though the last one doesn't apply for them.

Meanwhile you have guys like Sam Byrd who hold multiple records and heavy squats both geared and raw:

"Big Byrd12-11-07, 12:23 am
I do not train like a powerlifter i suppose. I dont do the westside barbell training or use any bands or chains or boards. I dont do speed training or box squats or any of those things most powerlifters hold so sacred. I dont even train in my gear, at all. I just hit a number 4 weeks out and gauge my openers on that.
"

The Byrd Cage [Archive] - the F O R V M
You must have mistaken me for a WS guy? I dont train WS, not even close. I have lifted against them though, their raw strength is off the chart as well. I am sure they are like me, just not interested in raw meets.

Also when did it get about their training method? I thought we were talking about squat form, then I drifted the topic away lol!

One more thing, I agree WS isnt the best method out there for drug free raw lifters. LTL made a good run of it.
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Last edited by J_Byrd; 09-11-2012 at 06:37 AM.
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