Muscle and Brawn Forums
 

Go Back   Muscle and Brawn Forums > Training > Powerlifting & Strength Training
Mark Forums Read
Register Articles Members List Search Today's Posts

Notices

Powerlifting & Strength Training Topics related to powerlifting and strength training.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-14-2012, 08:26 AM   #11
miked96
Senior Member
Max Brawn
Points: 13,418, Level: 75 Points: 13,418, Level: 75 Points: 13,418, Level: 75
Activity: 12% Activity: 12% Activity: 12%
 
miked96's Avatar
 

Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Greenville,SC
Posts: 1,745
Reputation: 141694
miked96 is a master membermiked96 is a master membermiked96 is a master membermiked96 is a master membermiked96 is a master membermiked96 is a master membermiked96 is a master membermiked96 is a master membermiked96 is a master membermiked96 is a master membermiked96 is a master member
Default

I think most people throw away this type of training without trying it because the word "max". Its not sniffing ammonia, working yourself into a rage contest max. It needs to be a heavy effort for that particular day. Basically something you could do that is hard but you have a 95% change of making. Trying to push that number up is what I think makes this type of training productive.
miked96 is online now   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 08-14-2012, 08:37 AM   #12
BendtheBar
Bearded Beast of Duloc
Max Brawn
Points: 1,554,481, Level: 100 Points: 1,554,481, Level: 100 Points: 1,554,481, Level: 100
Activity: 49% Activity: 49% Activity: 49%
 
BendtheBar's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 79,816
Training Exp: 20+ years
Training Type: Powerbuilding
Fav Exercise: Deadlift
Fav Supp: Butter
Reputation: 2583792
BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ravimolasaria View Post
Actually this was my point. If a program is tough, there is no problem, but problem is when you are doing specialized training, you don't have enough time for other parts.
That's been the issue for me. I ran 3x a week squatting while training 6x a week for about 5 months. After a period of time, as I mentally and physically adapted, I felt like squatting 6x a week to a daily max would be possible. The only drawback is time.

A brisk warmup session to a daily max takes me about 40 minutes. I really can only afford to spend more one hour a day lifting. That doesn't leave much room, and almost commands additional sessions.

If someone could warmup and hit a single in 30 minutes, then it would probably fit them better.
__________________
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Destroy That Which Destroys You

"Let bravery be thy choice, but not bravado."


BendtheBar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2012, 09:11 AM   #13
Shorts
Hulk Smash!
Max Brawn
Points: 3,912, Level: 39 Points: 3,912, Level: 39 Points: 3,912, Level: 39
Activity: 2% Activity: 2% Activity: 2%
 
Shorts's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 908
Training Exp: 5
Training Type: Powerlifting
Fav Exercise: Deadlift
Fav Supp: FOOD, nom nom
Reputation: 49225
Shorts is a lifting machineShorts is a lifting machineShorts is a lifting machineShorts is a lifting machineShorts is a lifting machineShorts is a lifting machineShorts is a lifting machineShorts is a lifting machineShorts is a lifting machineShorts is a lifting machineShorts is a lifting machine
Default

I ran a 5/3/1 full body routine for a while, it had me squatting 3x a week with a heavy, medium, light day.

Coming from an injury this got my squats back up close to where I was before I was injured. It is definitely a tough routine to get used to but once you get into it, it really isn't all that bad.
__________________

Class I Total @ 198: 525/335/600 (1460)

"No citizen has the right to be an amateur in the matter of physical training.... What a disgrace it is for a man to grow old without ever seeing the beauty and strength of which his body is capable."
-Socrates
Shorts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2012, 09:28 AM   #14
ravimolasaria
Senior Member
Max Brawn
Points: 27,548, Level: 98 Points: 27,548, Level: 98 Points: 27,548, Level: 98
Activity: 100% Activity: 100% Activity: 100%
 
ravimolasaria's Avatar
 

Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: India
Posts: 17,503
Training Exp: 10
Training Type: ARGH!!!
Fav Exercise: Squats
Fav Supp: Whatever makes me strong
Reputation: 1021050
ravimolasaria is one with Crom!ravimolasaria is one with Crom!ravimolasaria is one with Crom!ravimolasaria is one with Crom!ravimolasaria is one with Crom!ravimolasaria is one with Crom!ravimolasaria is one with Crom!ravimolasaria is one with Crom!ravimolasaria is one with Crom!ravimolasaria is one with Crom!ravimolasaria is one with Crom!
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shorts View Post
I ran a 5/3/1 full body routine for a while, it had me squatting 3x a week with a heavy, medium, light day.
Whether you are doing 5/3/1, 5 X 5 or any other variation, the frequency is ok may be for a short period say 4-6 month max. If you are doing for any specific purpose (as your post suggested, you were doing it to get back at the wt. where you were before injury) or working on a weak part, then it is ok. But for how long one can continue 6-8 sets, 6-7 days a week no matter whether it is heavy / medium or light.

I'm about to change my schedule after this week. Would love to give it a try ... But my method will be 6 weeks Squat / 6 weeks Bench and 6 weeks DL. I love to finish my sessions with max wt. I can handle on that day, so frequency will be 3 times a week.
__________________
My Log
ravimolasaria is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2012, 09:32 AM   #15
BendtheBar
Bearded Beast of Duloc
Max Brawn
Points: 1,554,481, Level: 100 Points: 1,554,481, Level: 100 Points: 1,554,481, Level: 100
Activity: 49% Activity: 49% Activity: 49%
 
BendtheBar's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 79,816
Training Exp: 20+ years
Training Type: Powerbuilding
Fav Exercise: Deadlift
Fav Supp: Butter
Reputation: 2583792
BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by miked96 View Post
Trying to push that number up is what I think makes this type of training productive.
This has been what it's all about for me. While I've only been training to a max 2-3x a week, my goal has consistently been to push my max set weight up by 5 pounds at every opportunity. When a max set at a given weight is not a grinder, I add 5 pounds.

Last year when I started this 405 on my back was intimidating, and 465 singles were a huge mental challenge. Currently I am up to 570 singles, and have a far greater mental confidence when attacking heavy weight because I know what to expect.

For me it's just been about getting on the bike more often and trying to improve. Most of the battles I face are mental; they still are.

My period of squatting 3x a week really allowed me to dial in my squat form. It's never been more consistent, and I haven't had a substantial tweak in a long time.
__________________
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Destroy That Which Destroys You

"Let bravery be thy choice, but not bravado."


BendtheBar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2012, 09:59 AM   #16
Fazc
Senior Member
Max Brawn
Points: 14,403, Level: 77 Points: 14,403, Level: 77 Points: 14,403, Level: 77
Activity: 36% Activity: 36% Activity: 36%
 

Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: U.K
Posts: 5,554
Training Exp: 12+ years
Training Type: Powerlifting
Fav Exercise: Bench Press
Fav Supp: Chicken
Reputation: 420568
Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BendtheBar View Post
My period of squatting 3x a week really allowed me to dial in my squat form. It's never been more consistent, and I haven't had a substantial tweak in a long time.
This is the crux for me, and hats off to you Btb for staying patient with it.

When talking about higher levels of strength, fixing form can be done effectively one of a few ways:

1) Sub max work done frequently. The thought goes into each set and form is locked in mentally. Benefit here is that the sets are light enough to squat how you want, but hard enough to do them heavy and frequently enough to benefit.

2) Sub max work done with added assistance. This is what I've been doing. Sub max work allows for correct form like the first option. But instead of additional sub max work, specific assistance is used instead.

3) To-the-limit squats (for any rep range, not necessarily a 1RM) done with added assistance. This is the riskier strategy in my opinion. The heavy sets will inevitably be done with 'old' form as the body chooses to use it's strongest bar path and this continually strengthens that wrong groove. Assistance here might not help. This is why I think on WSB training the competition lifts should NOT be used for max work.

Plenty of different ways to skin the same cat. I admire anyone can make the frequent squats work.
Fazc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2012, 10:05 AM   #17
ravimolasaria
Senior Member
Max Brawn
Points: 27,548, Level: 98 Points: 27,548, Level: 98 Points: 27,548, Level: 98
Activity: 100% Activity: 100% Activity: 100%
 
ravimolasaria's Avatar
 

Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: India
Posts: 17,503
Training Exp: 10
Training Type: ARGH!!!
Fav Exercise: Squats
Fav Supp: Whatever makes me strong
Reputation: 1021050
ravimolasaria is one with Crom!ravimolasaria is one with Crom!ravimolasaria is one with Crom!ravimolasaria is one with Crom!ravimolasaria is one with Crom!ravimolasaria is one with Crom!ravimolasaria is one with Crom!ravimolasaria is one with Crom!ravimolasaria is one with Crom!ravimolasaria is one with Crom!ravimolasaria is one with Crom!
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BendtheBar View Post
My period of squatting 3x a week really allowed me to dial in my squat form.
3x in a week itself is a monstrous working ... ...
__________________
My Log
ravimolasaria is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2012, 10:27 AM   #18
miked96
Senior Member
Max Brawn
Points: 13,418, Level: 75 Points: 13,418, Level: 75 Points: 13,418, Level: 75
Activity: 12% Activity: 12% Activity: 12%
 
miked96's Avatar
 

Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Greenville,SC
Posts: 1,745
Reputation: 141694
miked96 is a master membermiked96 is a master membermiked96 is a master membermiked96 is a master membermiked96 is a master membermiked96 is a master membermiked96 is a master membermiked96 is a master membermiked96 is a master membermiked96 is a master membermiked96 is a master member
Default

The weird thing I experienced, is that it really improved my deadlift but if I dead lifted too much then everything went south. I found it was optimal to pull every other week after your last heavy day instead of doing squat backoffs.

I alternated heavy and light weeks.
Heavy week:
Three days of going to training max. Two of those days had backoffs based on that number you hit that day. Third day was a training max then pulls.

Light week:
Three days of squatting based off of your heaviest training max during the previous heavy week.

I squatted to at least 315 during the days in between.

I think DiscipleX is running a variation of it again that I gave him. I know he went from 365 to 415 in about 4 weeks before.
miked96 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2012, 10:46 AM   #19
BendtheBar
Bearded Beast of Duloc
Max Brawn
Points: 1,554,481, Level: 100 Points: 1,554,481, Level: 100 Points: 1,554,481, Level: 100
Activity: 49% Activity: 49% Activity: 49%
 
BendtheBar's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 79,816
Training Exp: 20+ years
Training Type: Powerbuilding
Fav Exercise: Deadlift
Fav Supp: Butter
Reputation: 2583792
BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!
Default

I just want to add a few thoughts.

Initially I would have light and heavy days. More light days than heavy days. When I felt great, I would go heavy. Most times I would go light. Just for reference, light was around 87.5%. I didn't choose this percentage. It simply was a weight that felt reasonable for a light single. Heavy was around 90-95%. (At this time my meet squat PR was 529)

So I started with 465 as my light weight. No matter what I did, I had to hit at least a 465 single. I would say one third of the time I did a 485-505 single. This quickly evolved into 465 or 505 days.

The longer I used singles, the more I naturally started to use 505, and the less I was using 465. This wasn't planned. It just happened as confidence and form improved.

This period of more frequent light days really benefited me in two ways:

1) Allowed me to build mental confidence. I didn't always have to go heavy heavy. I was able to build confidence and adapt naturally without being chained to a specific heavy/light program or frequency.

2) Allowed me to work on form. As my form confidence became more consistent, I naturally started to use more heavy days. This wasn't something I consciously thought about. It just happened.

The next step up was a hard one. I slowly pushed my max single days up to 525 pounds. My light days had climbed to 505 pounds. The gap between heavy and light was closing.

This was a very mentally challenging stage. I was hitting my form stride, and I was confident with heavy weight on my back. Despite this, I knew each day I HAD to go in and push. This was the mental challenge. Many days I didn't want to push.

Around this time I had my next meet. I hit a 600 pound squat. This was a 71 pound max jump in 6 months. I was very happy with this progress.

It was around this time that everything started to click 100%. My form was extremely consistent. I knew my body was capable of heavy squats, and learned to ignore the voices saying "go lighter". Light days slowly disappeared.

I started to train squats only 2x a week, but every session was a heavy single. I started with 525 each day, and when this max single weight felt decent for 2-3 workouts in a row, I added 5 pounds. I kept this up.

Right now my singles are at 570 pounds. I never do light days anymore, though I do allow for them. It's just that I don't want to do them anymore. No matter how afraid I am, I am thinking to myself...shut the hell up and squat. Do it. No excuses.

Understand I never let bravado trump how my body feels. If something feels off, I stop a workout. Always. But I never get tweaks anymore. I think I've had one minor tweak in 6 months, and that occurred from adding a drop set in. I randomly changed my program and paid the price.

Before this journey I lived with hamstring tweaks. My squat form was inconsistent, and I had a tendency to open my knees too wide at the top. This left me with strain after strain. Frequent squatting allowed me to focus, dial things in, and get rid of this tendency.
__________________
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Destroy That Which Destroys You

"Let bravery be thy choice, but not bravado."


BendtheBar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2012, 10:49 AM   #20
Off Road
Senior Member
Max Brawn
Points: 17,091, Level: 83 Points: 17,091, Level: 83 Points: 17,091, Level: 83
Activity: 1% Activity: 1% Activity: 1%
 
Off Road's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 7,606
Reputation: 786994
Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!
Default

I've been squatting 3X a week with a full-body 5/3/1 template...

Day 1 (volume day) - 3 sets of 10 reps with deload percentages (40%x10, 50%x10, 60%x10)
Day 2 (recovery day) - 3 sets of 5-8 reps with deload percentages (40%x5-8, 50%x5-8, 60%x5-8 (reps dependant on how I feel))
Day 3 (intensity day) - 5/3/1 sets and max reps; On the final week I do several singles at 95% followed by a back-off set of 20 reppers.

My goal for this routine is a 450 lb max squat followed by 20 reps with 350 lbs. The outcome of this routine will still be determined by long term progress, it is not being done as a specialization routine, but so far I feel completely recovered and my squat form seems very solid.

Last edited by Off Road; 08-14-2012 at 11:18 AM.
Off Road is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
frequent, squatting


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Frequent heavy training BendtheBar Powerlifting & Strength Training 8 02-26-2012 12:06 PM
Squatting The Right Way BendtheBar Articles 3 06-17-2011 02:51 PM
How do you warmup before squatting? big_swede Powerlifting & Strength Training 8 04-08-2011 10:26 PM
Tips for Low bar squatting please :) Carl1174 Powerlifting & Strength Training 26 03-24-2011 08:20 AM
Are frequent program changes necessary ? Carl1174 Articles 23 02-23-2011 11:39 AM

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:14 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.