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Old 10-21-2009, 07:27 AM   #1
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Default CNS Burnout

I want to bring up the topic of CNS burnout. So much is said of CNS burnout, and I think it's the least understood training-related factor.

What do you believe causes CNS burnout? Is CNS burnout overblown?

Is training to failure bad for CNS? Slow negatives? Training above 90%?

"Over-reaching" is actually a training technique used in dual factor training. They fatigue themselves "over the line", and then allow that fatigue to rescind, and come back stronger. This has been used by Eastern Block countries for decades.

Are these guys insane? Or is CNS overload allowed as long as you deload?
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Old 10-21-2009, 08:38 AM   #2
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This is a great topic, but not one I believe we can come to a conclusive decision. Everything I've seen points that there is no scientific data on such as this.

With that said, I do believe it's possible, but maybe I'm confusing overtraining with CNS overload (?). Perhaps it is over-blown. Again (?)

[I've basically said nothing in all that above LOL]
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Old 10-21-2009, 09:06 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by RickB View Post
This is a great topic, but not one I believe we can come to a conclusive decision. Everything I've seen points that there is no scientific data on such as this.

With that said, I do believe it's possible, but maybe I'm confusing overtraining with CNS overload (?). Perhaps it is over-blown. Again (?)
I think the effects of over-training are caused by CNS overload. I think they're in the same boat.

I think that what we view of as over-training is hard to achieve. With that said, I don't think a natural should go anywhere near the tipping point.

The hardest training I do is 90% plus powerlifting movements. It is hard on me for extended periods of time.

When I drop down in reps, my body seems to handle it much better.
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Old 10-21-2009, 09:32 AM   #4
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Speaking of reps, I prefer higher reps (with great form) for the majority of my workout. IMO it puts you in more of a cardio mode while shredding the muscles. I do on compound movements however, do a PL type of set.

But back to the subject at hand. I think there is some overlapping, but in my pea brain I've always pictured them being separate...but realize this could be wrong.

CNS in my mind is like what is green here and overload could be dealing with pain, repair, & recovery (?):
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Old 10-21-2009, 09:38 AM   #5
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From what I've read, most all rep ranges (6-20) are solid for getting stronger. There's a study done by "Carpinelli" on the site where he analyzed other studies rep ranges, and found they are all good for strength gains, but that lower reps are the worst as far as injury potential.

This flies against Westside and many powerlifting routines.

When I was at my strongest (400+ bench), I was training in the 6-12 rep range.
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Old 10-21-2009, 10:03 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MuscleandBrawn View Post
I think that what we view of as over-training is hard to achieve.
Totally agree with that statement! Its a lot harder then people think to reach true muscular over-training, espically from lifting weights. When I think muscular over-training, I think of extremes like really long marathons or tour de france. Where you are just going and going with hardly any rest at all.

As far as cns burnout, I dont think I have ever heard a definitive answer on it. IMO I think it's because it's hard on the body from the hormonal changes that take place from adaptation and recovery. I remember reading a study that said psychological burnout or over-stimulation can also be a big factor as well. Since the brain influences glands that release testoterone, cortisol, etc I could see how that could have a major impact.

And Rick I agree with you on the high reps. I love lifting heavy, but looking back I made my biggest gains lifting in the 8-12 rep range. But I know some people grow really well with lower reps than that.
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Old 10-21-2009, 10:25 AM   #7
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When bodybuilding training, I only remember over-training once. I was doing a 3 days on, 1 day off routine in my early 20's. It was an Arnold style, and about 90 minutes a day.

I think after 3-4 months on this routine, I felt like I needed a break.

If took me two months to reach meltdown, even on one of the worst possible routines for a natural.
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Old 10-21-2009, 04:21 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by MuscleandBrawn View Post

What do you believe causes CNS burnout?

Working in a capacity that you are not conditioned to sustain. One workout no matter how hard will not cause this. You can work beyond your cns recovery ability for a time. The affects accumulate, and eventually you need to rest. This varies from person to person based on their individual overall conditioning. It's not a bad thing to do, so long as you understand that you must at some point rest to recharge.

If you work within your capability's and allow your body time to adapt then you can go for a very extended period of time without taking a break. I think there is merit to pushing hard, and forcing your system to learn to recover faster.


Is CNS burnout overblown?

YES!! It's nothing to be afraid of for the most part. You just need to be aware that it can happen, and don't run yourself so far down that your totally drained to a dangerous exhaustion level.


Is training to failure bad for CNS?

No, but I feel it's worse for the muscles themselves. Limited failure training is one thing. Always going to failure, with the stress to the muscle tissue can lead to injury. I believe we have the data to show that failure training is not needed for progress

Slow negatives?

Some data shows this to be less than optimal in the long run.

Training above 90%?

As part of a peaking cycle where you build to it, can be a good thing. Long term working here can shorten your overall career. You may not feel it when your 20, but you will when your 50. Stuff I did to my body 30yrs ago, shows up in protest now.

"Over-reaching" is actually a training technique used in dual factor training. They fatigue themselves "over the line", and then allow that fatigue to rescind, and come back stronger. This has been used by Eastern Block countries for decades.

Are these guys insane?

No. They find the wall, and push it farther out. There is a limit to how far you can go. Expanding the envelope to the farthest edge can mean that small point in competition for the win.

Is CNS overload allowed as long as you deload?

Totally
I used to run 8-10 miles every few days. I did not just get up one day and do it. I had to start with getting the first mile down. Then I did two, then three, five, and so on. Finally I could run 8 plus miles and feel great after a run.

It's the same thing with your CNS, in regards to weight training. It's being trained to handle the workload, just as your muscles are adapting to the stress.

Periods of low rep high intensity work will push your workload capacity up. When you reset back to a higher rep plan, it is like shifting gears again, and your cruising.

IMO.

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Old 10-21-2009, 07:59 PM   #9
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Very good conversation gentlemen.
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Old 10-21-2009, 10:38 PM   #10
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Good thread. So if the CNS can be conditioned, does anyone believe low reps are the answer? I'm trying to sort this out. From what some of you said, low reps are harmful over the long haul.
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