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Nutrition, Diet and Supplements Discuss nutrition, diet, cutting and weight loss. Supplement discussions as well.

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Old 04-30-2012, 04:52 PM   #11
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Yet, people still vote for big government.
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Old 04-30-2012, 06:03 PM   #12
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BS Flag! WTH
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Old 05-01-2012, 11:50 AM   #13
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I don't understand the objection to the FDA's actions.

It just seems a basic, basic thing that a company has to do before bringing a product to market: you carry out rigorous tests on the components to make sure its not going to poison anyone. These are the rules adhered to by hand-cream companies, food companies and drug companies. Why should the supplement industry be any different?

Until you do this, the consumers cannot make an informed choice about using their product. If I take a capsule produced by a supplement company, I think it's a reasonable expectation that (a) they've tested it to make sure it's not going to kill me and/or (b) there's a warning about the compounds within it, so I can make a decision whether to take it, despite a risk.

The supplement industry has had several golden decades, emptying your pockets for bogus snake-oil products, making outrageous claims that were flat-out lies, encouraging you to damage your athletic progress and health by ingesting industrial quantities of essentially untested products. It's about time they were brought to heel.
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Old 05-01-2012, 12:23 PM   #14
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Tann,
I think there tends to be a general distrust of the FDA as their main goal seems to promote and keep certain industries (agriculture, being one) strong without much overall regard for "human safety."

For example, they go after people who sell and manufacture milk the old-fashioned way. What harm could possibly come from that? Oh, right, reduced homogenized milk sales! Can't have that, now can we?

In essence, I agree that the FDA should look out for human safety and I agree that supplement and drug companies have been able to blow smoke up our collective asses for far too long.

But when I look at substances which aren't controlled like alcohol and tobacco, substances which are tightly controlled like "gear," and look at how some drug companies are able to garner approval for drugs with a laundry list of side-effects including paralysis or worse, the reality of how the FDA works falls far short of my ideal.
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Old 05-01-2012, 02:54 PM   #15
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Tann,
I think there tends to be a general distrust of the FDA as their main goal seems to promote and keep certain industries (agriculture, being one) strong without much overall regard for "human safety."

For example, they go after people who sell and manufacture milk the old-fashioned way. What harm could possibly come from that? Oh, right, reduced homogenized milk sales! Can't have that, now can we?

In essence, I agree that the FDA should look out for human safety and I agree that supplement and drug companies have been able to blow smoke up our collective asses for far too long.

But when I look at substances which aren't controlled like alcohol and tobacco, substances which are tightly controlled like "gear," and look at how some drug companies are able to garner approval for drugs with a laundry list of side-effects including paralysis or worse, the reality of how the FDA works falls far short of my ideal.
Hi Nard

I can't comment on homogenized milk as I don't know anything about putative health risks that might be associated with it.

You're right, of course, that pharmacological drugs are allowed through with terrible side effects and safety records. However, many of these drugs are addressing life-threatening conditions, so the bar has to be set in a different place for supplements. Anti-psychotics, for example, are notorious for side effects - but they save lives. Drastic conditions need more drastic treatments and the concommitant higher risks. But at least those risks are well-known.

With tobacco and alcohol, well again this is an issue of informed consent. The average consumer has a wealth of easily available research relating to alcohol and tobacco. When it comes to supplement compounds, I would argue that the average person is incredibly vulnerable. Many get their information from the big guy at the gym, supplement company shills or misinterpret research studies.

Many of the FDA's controls are seen in other developed countries. So if the FDA make their decisions due to pressure groups or various industries, we have to conclude that these groups have an international reach. And that sounds suspiciously close to conspiracy to me.
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Old 05-01-2012, 03:07 PM   #16
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...

You're right, of course, that pharmacological drugs are allowed through with terrible side effects and safety records. However, many of these drugs are addressing life-threatening conditions, so the bar has to be set in a different place for supplements. Anti-psychotics, for example, are notorious for side effects - but they save lives. Drastic conditions need more drastic treatments and the concommitant higher risks. But at least those risks are well-known.

...
I see the points of milk and tobacco/alcohol use and you'll never see me argue the merits of life-saving drugs being pushed to market, even with some adverse sides.

That said, nowadays on the TV, there is an advertisement every other commercial break for a drug which is not treating a life-threatening aliment and for which there are very dangerous side-effects (if you can listen to the voice run down the laundry list at lightning fast speed during the last 4 seconds).

So, I can't always believe that the FDA is operating in the most transparent fashion, if that makes sense. Again, I think the supplement companies should have to be clearer about what is in their products and its safety.

If not, then taking over the counter supps is a safe/dangerous and underground substances. And what's the point in that?
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Old 05-01-2012, 03:18 PM   #17
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That said, nowadays on the TV, there is an advertisement every other commercial break for a drug which is not treating a life-threatening aliment and for which there are very dangerous side-effects (if you can listen to the voice run down the laundry list at lightning fast speed during the last 4 seconds).
Good points.

It's some years since I've been to the USA, and now that you mention it, I remember being surprised by all the drug adverts on TV there. They are endemic, aren't they? That's a big difference to over here, where we get a few ads for cold relief, headaches and general pain, and that's it.

In general - and this is stereotyping horribly - I think there is a greater tendency for people in the US to be generically suspicious of all government/public offices, and more forgiving when it comes to private corporations. Though that maybe just my perception.
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Old 05-01-2012, 03:29 PM   #18
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Good points.

It's some years since I've been to the USA, and now that you mention it, I remember being surprised by all the drug adverts on TV there. They are endemic, aren't they? That's a big difference to over here, where we get a few ads for cold relief, headaches and general pain, and that's it.

In general - and this is stereotyping horribly - I think there is a greater tendency for people in the US to be generically suspicious of all government/public offices, and more forgiving when it comes to private corporations. Though that maybe just my perception.
Trust me when I say that the adverts are even at a higher frequency now. Within the last 6 months, they have started running HRT commercials during sports events (on top of the endless Viagra/Levitra/Cialis and Anti-Depression commercials). So, if you are a guy with a chronic bad mood, limp dick, and want to feel young, you will know about what to speak with your doctor by the end of any televised sports event.

Our country was founded on a healthy suspicion of government, IMO. But nowadays, private corporations ARE government because they are the people (so sayeth the Supreme Court) with the power (money) to hire and fire politicians through funding (or lack thereof).

It's all one big mess.
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Old 05-01-2012, 04:13 PM   #19
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Well put, MC.
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