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Old 01-14-2011, 10:43 AM   #11
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OP:

without knowing more about your training experience, I can't provide information that is specifically beneficial to you.

But I would like to offer some info and quell some suspicions.

Firstly: The is nothing wrong with soy. I cannot use most dairy products, so I supplement with soy protein isolate. As long as:
a: you are in a position to benefit from an isolate
b: you know how to make the most of it
then soy PI is almost as good as regular old whey; don't write it off.

I've also used pea PI - another vegan/vegetarian friendly supplement which is considered even better (more bioavailable) than soy. It's only the price that keeps me from using it more regularly.

Secondly: If eggs, milk and cheese are ok with your owner, then you shouldn't worry. Do a little research, make sure you're getting your X-grams of protein each day, and you'll be fine. Hell, there's many protein-rich foods (like beans and chic peas) that are just all-round GOOD for you, so deriving your daily protein from these sources is a generally great thing to do!

Thirdly: Meat is king. Sorry, but I have to say this: if MY woman tried to change my diet, there'd be no more MY woman. Splitsville. For a start, I know way more about healthy eating than most vegans/vegetarians I've come across... and that's really not saying much.
Don't assume what she's into is going to help YOU, and YOUR goals.
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PERSONAL RECORDS
Axle clean-press: 100 kgs (220 lbs)
Bench press: 135 kgs (298 lbs) - 1st PL meet 16th October 2011
Deadlift w/Barbell: 180 kgs (397 lbs)
Deadlift w/Hexbar: 225 kgs (496 lbs)
Farmers walk: 240 kgs (530 lbs), 50 feet
Front squat: 100 kgs (220 lbs)
Log clean-press: 100 kgs (220 lbs)
Strict OHP: 85 kgs (187 lbs) 3 reps
Tyre flip: 260 kgs (573 lbs), 100 feet
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Old 01-14-2011, 10:56 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Trevor Lane View Post
Not healthy. Not muscle building. Humans are by design carnivorous, we have prey targeting front facing eyes and sharp teeth for tearing chunks of meat. In fact, you would be healthier swearing of all vegetation than you would being vegetarian. Also, soy will literally turn you into a bitch.
Sorry, but the two statements I have emboldened are wrong.

1. Humans are Omnivorous. There's much to be debated about the early development of the bipedal simian which is our ancestor, but internally the modern human is simply not equipped to handle a carnivore diet: the buildup of rotted meat in the lower intestine would kill us too quickly.

2. The studies regarding phytoestrogens in soy have been grossly misinterpreted and miscalculated; in order for soy to cause an unhealthy increase in oestrogen in the male human body, said male would need to be ingesting at least 500 grams of it a day.
500 grams of any protein per day is unhealthy.
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MY LOG

PERSONAL RECORDS
Axle clean-press: 100 kgs (220 lbs)
Bench press: 135 kgs (298 lbs) - 1st PL meet 16th October 2011
Deadlift w/Barbell: 180 kgs (397 lbs)
Deadlift w/Hexbar: 225 kgs (496 lbs)
Farmers walk: 240 kgs (530 lbs), 50 feet
Front squat: 100 kgs (220 lbs)
Log clean-press: 100 kgs (220 lbs)
Strict OHP: 85 kgs (187 lbs) 3 reps
Tyre flip: 260 kgs (573 lbs), 100 feet
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Old 01-14-2011, 12:17 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Abaddon View Post
Sorry, but the two statements I have emboldened are wrong.

1. Humans are Omnivorous. There's much to be debated about the early development of the bipedal simian which is our ancestor, but internally the modern human is simply not equipped to handle a carnivore diet: the buildup of rotted meat in the lower intestine would kill us too quickly.

2. The studies regarding phytoestrogens in soy have been grossly misinterpreted and miscalculated; in order for soy to cause an unhealthy increase in oestrogen in the male human body, said male would need to be ingesting at least 500 grams of it a day.
500 grams of any protein per day is unhealthy.
My counterpoints:
1. Our overall intestine length/anus to mouth distance ratio is between that of a dog and a cat. Dogs are Carnivorous, but they can survuve without meat and cats are obligit carnivores (if they don't eat meat long enough they die), we are non-obligit carnivores like dogs.

2. If a male has a body weight of 250 lbs or more and is competitive in a strength sport, which means he definitely is consuming 1.5-2 grams of protien per pound, he's real close or over 500g a day and probably the picture of perfect health. The fact that a miniscule ammount of soy supplementation can settle post-menopausal women with similar effect as estrogen therapy is all the eveidence I need to know I want no parts of that shit. Also, all legumes are shitty and wreak havock on the human carnivorous digestive system.

Bottom line is vegetarianism/veganism (I don't recognize a real difference) is not meant for human consumption and is always derived from irrational religious beliefs. If you don't believe that, bring a rack of ribs to as 7th Day church picnic and watch the reaction
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Old 01-14-2011, 12:35 PM   #14
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^Trevor. Your logic is flawed.

For a start: women already HAVE oestrogen. The soy acts as a top-up, and is such a tiny amount that it is of absolutely no consequence if ingested by a male.

Secondly: 1.5-2 grams of protien per pound of body mass is unhealthy. It's broscience to suggest a person needs more than 1 gram (and ideally .8 of a gram) per pound of lean body mass, no matter what athletic condition they are in.

Thirdly: most dogs and cats DON'T actually survive on a diet of pure protein. Your average dog and cat food is at least 50% vegetable matter... which is why kept, domesticated cats live much longer than ferals.
Incidentally, the length of a dogs intestines - proportionate to their 'mouth-to-anus' ratio, as you put it - is 5% that of a human's.

But on dentition alone, your points are disproven: both dogs and cats have solely flesh-tearing teeth (canines, not to be too obvious) while humans have vegetable-crushing teeth (molars). Also, dogs and cats cannot manipulate their jaws from side to side, like humans and other herbivores (cows, for instance).

In short, the similarities between humans and any carnivore you might like to mention are far outweighed by the differences, rendering the comparison obsolete.

EDIT: and a final thought - in reality legumes etc do little to no damage at all to the human digestive system (if eaten as part of a balanced diet, of course) Now overcooked or overly aged meat... very different story!
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W.A. AMATEUR STRONGMAN

MY LOG

PERSONAL RECORDS
Axle clean-press: 100 kgs (220 lbs)
Bench press: 135 kgs (298 lbs) - 1st PL meet 16th October 2011
Deadlift w/Barbell: 180 kgs (397 lbs)
Deadlift w/Hexbar: 225 kgs (496 lbs)
Farmers walk: 240 kgs (530 lbs), 50 feet
Front squat: 100 kgs (220 lbs)
Log clean-press: 100 kgs (220 lbs)
Strict OHP: 85 kgs (187 lbs) 3 reps
Tyre flip: 260 kgs (573 lbs), 100 feet

Last edited by Abaddon; 01-14-2011 at 12:48 PM.
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Old 01-14-2011, 01:10 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abaddon View Post
^Trevor. Your logic is flawed.

For a start: women already HAVE oestrogen. The soy acts as a top-up, and is such a tiny amount that it is of absolutely no consequence if ingested by a male.

Secondly: 1.5-2 grams of protien per pound of body mass is unhealthy. It's broscience to suggest a person needs more than 1 gram (and ideally .8 of a gram) per pound of lean body mass, no matter what athletic condition they are in.

Thirdly: most dogs and cats DON'T actually survive on a diet of pure protein. Your average dog and cat food is at least 50% vegetable matter... which is why kept, domesticated cats live much longer than ferals.
Incidentally, the length of a dogs intestines - proportionate to their 'mouth-to-anus' ratio, as you put it - is 5% that of a human's.

But on dentition alone, your points are disproven: both dogs and cats have solely flesh-tearing teeth (canines, not to be too obvious) while humans have vegetable-crushing teeth (molars). Also, dogs and cats cannot manipulate their jaws from side to side, like humans and other herbivores (cows, for instance).

In short, the differences between humans and any carnivore you might like to mention are far outweighed by the differences, rendering the comparison obsolete.

Please, legumes including soy, are unfit for human consumption just like grains. So that's reason 1 not to eat it ever! Even a "top up" is too much for a muscle building male.

I never said athletes need more than 1 gram, I said they eat 1.5-2 grams. Better safe than sorry.

We can be omnivorous, but it is perfectly healthy for a human to eat 90%+ meat. I've done it for extended periods and it's ****ing awesome.
Say what you will about Jamie Lewis, but he does his homework so if you don't believe me/him check the links at the bottoms of the articles:
http://www.chaosandpain.com/content/...-fun-way-22-12

http://www.chaosandpain.com/content/...vored-lollipop

http://www.chaosandpain.com/content/...ss-tinfoil-hat

http://www.chaosandpain.com/content/...pyramid-part-1

I'm done arguing about this. If Octo wants to let his wife tell him what to eat and try to build muscle, no one can really help him that much.

Last edited by Trevor Lane; 01-14-2011 at 01:18 PM.
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Old 01-14-2011, 01:40 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Trevor Lane View Post
... If Octo wants to let his wife tell him what to eat and try to build muscle, no one can really help him that much.
This is the point I was quietly trying to make.

I would eat what I needed to eat in order to grow. My spouse or SO would eat whatever they wanted to in order to reach their intended goals.
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Old 01-14-2011, 05:25 PM   #17
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You'll have to forgive me if I continue to use the muscle-building soy PI I've been consuming over the last 10 months... with no ill effects.

I too have eaten a diet of 90%+ meat. I certainly didn't feel as good on that as I do now, and I really couldn't advocate it in good conscience.

Us males have enough that can go wrong internally, cancer-wise, without adding undigested meat buildup into the mix.

And as for legumes etc: if they were honestly as bad for the human body as you make out, I doubt they would be sold and consumed in such abundance, let alone have diet plans based around them still in circulation.
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MY LOG

PERSONAL RECORDS
Axle clean-press: 100 kgs (220 lbs)
Bench press: 135 kgs (298 lbs) - 1st PL meet 16th October 2011
Deadlift w/Barbell: 180 kgs (397 lbs)
Deadlift w/Hexbar: 225 kgs (496 lbs)
Farmers walk: 240 kgs (530 lbs), 50 feet
Front squat: 100 kgs (220 lbs)
Log clean-press: 100 kgs (220 lbs)
Strict OHP: 85 kgs (187 lbs) 3 reps
Tyre flip: 260 kgs (573 lbs), 100 feet
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Old 01-14-2011, 06:48 PM   #18
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Fact Check Panel, huh?

OK. Cavemen had short lifespans BECAUSE THEY MADE THEIR LIVING STABBING ****ING MAMMOTHS WITH ****ING STICKS! Agricultural diets cause Rheumatoid Arthritis (Corn in particular), Diabetes, and obesity: http://books.google.com/books?id=B4Y...page&q&f=false

Soy is still bad

Meat is good

Vegans and Vegetarians all choose their diets for moral beliefs about killing animals not for good health, then they have to supplement the shit out of their diets to make up for it and try to argue good health from it to the rest of us.

I have no idea who the Weston group is, but it sounds like alot of your claims are false too.

Last edited by Trevor Lane; 01-14-2011 at 06:51 PM.
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Old 01-14-2011, 06:58 PM   #19
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A friend of mine cured his wife of her vegetarianism in a short period of time (weeks!) by using some basic tactics, like constantly talking about cannibalism etc.

Theres no way you can be as strong and big on a diet without eating animals as otherwise, im sorry.

Good luck with the wife-curing part man =)
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Old 01-14-2011, 07:17 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FACT CHECK PANEL View Post
WARNING: FALSE INFORMATION DETECTED FROM DEBUNKED WESTON A PRICE FOUNDATION



ALERT TO ALL VIEWERS:

The Panel has detected that falsified information is found at this location, regarding the " Weston A Price Foundation ".

The user identified as "glwanabe" GL WANABE has issued fallacious information. This includes material that has been traced back to a Discredited Front Group by the name of the "WESTON A PRICE" foundation. This includes url links found tracing back to WestonAPrice.org and also entire posts full of falsified material sourced from the fallacious Weston A Price foundation.

All of the information traced back to the WESTON A. PRICE FOUNDATION, or ANYONE re-posting it, is now revealed to be false, and it can be thrown out.

Please make a note of it. And also post this information to others to alert them if you ever find an individual attempting to reference the known fallacious Weston A. Price foundation and their erroneous information.

_
Mr Fact check panel

If you disagree with something then talk openly about what you disagree with what has been said.

Hiding behind a front is cowardly.

I posted a link, and an article, that I said I found interesting. Did I claim that the entire site was perfect? No. I said it was large and would take time to go through. I have found topics I did not agree with as well on there. Just as I do not agree that vegan is the best for me.

I did not demonize vegans, I said to be informed before walking that path. I don't agree with a lot of people in ow they approach things, but it is there life to live. You seem to have made it a point to attack me, becasue I posted a link to a site that is very counter to your ideology.

It doesn't bother me. You have to choose how to live your life for you, and I will do the same for me.

We dont allow people to hide on this forum, so either be up front or don't post here. Your acct. is locked UFN
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