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Nutrition, Diet and Supplements Discuss nutrition, diet, cutting and weight loss. Supplement discussions as well.

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Old 12-11-2010, 03:00 PM   #1
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Default Need some help on diets, macros and so on!

Im currently working out with an old buddy of mine, he has been lifting off and on for 10 years or so (mostly off lol) so hes not a complete beginner.
Only recently i introduced him to real lifting, focusing on barbell training and so on.

Anyway he's been working the weights with me for 2 months now and has been following my routine (he went straight into my 6 days a week squat/push/pull and he didnt complain a bit, viking material that is). Now he asked me for help getting rid of his 'lovehandles' and harden up a bit in the next 3 months. Well dieting, macros and cal-counting aint my area at all so im asking you guys if you can help out with some good sollutions.


His current stats are
Height - 5.9
Weight - 195 lbs
Bf - ?


Max bench - 235
Max deadlifs - 295
Max squat -265


Any tips or suggestions are appreciated, including supplement reccomendations.

Thanks for reading.
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Old 12-11-2010, 03:06 PM   #2
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Here would be my recommendations: 3900 cals, 370g/+ protien, as much fat as accompanies that ammount of protein, and 100g/- carbs.
Other than typical pre and post workout supplements, I'd also say take a good multi, and an ECA stack.
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Old 12-11-2010, 05:09 PM   #3
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Natural Bodybuilder Brad Borland uses this method:

Protein - 1 to 1.25 grams per pound of bodyweight.
Fats - Keep fat intake at about 30 % of your total calorie intake.
Carbs - Carb Cycling: You will have a low carb day for 3 days (0.5 - 1 gram per pound) followed by a medium carb day (2 grams per pound) and finally a high carb day (2.5 to 3 grams per pound).

So based on his weight, a starting point would be:

Protein - 195 to 240 grams per day
Carbs: A high, medium and low day like this:

Low for 3 days - 95 grams to 195 grams of carbs
Medium for 1 day - 390 grams
High for 1 day - 485 to 585 grams

Fats - 30% as follows:

On Low Carb days - About 600 calories, or 66-67 grams. This varies based on carbs and proteins.
On Medium days - About 1040 cals, or 115 grams.
On High days - About 1290 cals, or 143 grams.

Calories are about:

Low Carb Days - 1657 to 2486 cals
Med Carb Days - 3342 to 3600 cals
High Carb Days - 3885 to 4710 cals

Zig Zag method

Based on an approx. lean mass. 7 day eating plan, including high and low days:

* 3000 calories
* 2600 calories
* 3000 calories
* 2600 calories
* 3000 calories
* 2600 calories
* 2600 calories

Low, Medium and High Calorie Cycling for Fat Loss

* Monday - 2100 calories (Low). 200 grams of protein, 70 grams of fat (roughly 30% of calories), and 167.5 grams of carbs.
* Tuesday - 2700 calories (Moderate). 200 grams of protein, 90 grams of fat (roughly 30% of calories), and 272.5 grams of carbs.
* Wednesday - 3300 calories (High). 200 grams of protein, 100 grams of fat (roughly 30% of calories), and 400 grams of carbs.
* Thursday - 2100 calories (Low). 200 grams of protein, 70 grams of fat (roughly 30% of calories), and 167.5 grams of carbs.
* Friday - 2700 calories (Moderate). 200 grams of protein, 90 grams of fat (roughly 30% of calories), and 272.5 grams of carbs.
* Saturday - 3300 calories (High). 200 grams of protein, 100 grams of fat (roughly 30% of calories), and 400 grams of carbs.
* Sunday - 2700 calories (Moderate). 200 grams of protein, 90 grams of fat (roughly 30% of calories), and 272.5 grams of carbs.
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Old 12-11-2010, 05:27 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BendtheBar View Post
Natural Bodybuilder Brad Borland uses this method:

Protein - 1 to 1.25 grams per pound of bodyweight.
Fats - Keep fat intake at about 30 % of your total calorie intake.
Carbs - Carb Cycling: You will have a low carb day for 3 days (0.5 - 1 gram per pound) followed by a medium carb day (2 grams per pound) and finally a high carb day (2.5 to 3 grams per pound).

So based on his weight, a starting point would be:

Protein - 195 to 240 grams per day
Carbs: A high, medium and low day like this:

Low for 3 days - 95 grams to 195 grams of carbs
Medium for 1 day - 390 grams
High for 1 day - 485 to 585 grams

Fats - 30% as follows:

On Low Carb days - About 600 calories, or 66-67 grams. This varies based on carbs and proteins.
On Medium days - About 1040 cals, or 115 grams.
On High days - About 1290 cals, or 143 grams.

Calories are about:

Low Carb Days - 1657 to 2486 cals
Med Carb Days - 3342 to 3600 cals
High Carb Days - 3885 to 4710 cals

Zig Zag method

Based on an approx. lean mass. 7 day eating plan, including high and low days:

* 3000 calories
* 2600 calories
* 3000 calories
* 2600 calories
* 3000 calories
* 2600 calories
* 2600 calories

Low, Medium and High Calorie Cycling for Fat Loss

* Monday - 2100 calories (Low). 200 grams of protein, 70 grams of fat (roughly 30% of calories), and 167.5 grams of carbs.
* Tuesday - 2700 calories (Moderate). 200 grams of protein, 90 grams of fat (roughly 30% of calories), and 272.5 grams of carbs.
* Wednesday - 3300 calories (High). 200 grams of protein, 100 grams of fat (roughly 30% of calories), and 400 grams of carbs.
* Thursday - 2100 calories (Low). 200 grams of protein, 70 grams of fat (roughly 30% of calories), and 167.5 grams of carbs.
* Friday - 2700 calories (Moderate). 200 grams of protein, 90 grams of fat (roughly 30% of calories), and 272.5 grams of carbs.
* Saturday - 3300 calories (High). 200 grams of protein, 100 grams of fat (roughly 30% of calories), and 400 grams of carbs.
* Sunday - 2700 calories (Moderate). 200 grams of protein, 90 grams of fat (roughly 30% of calories), and 272.5 grams of carbs.

Never having played with diet much, how effective would it be just listening to your body? For a cut example, lower carbs until feeling weak. Or, reducing food intake until hunger pains set in and then, re-fuel a bit. Obviously, I have no subject knowledge; I'm very uneducated and ignorant. My basic question is: how effective would it be in regard to dieting to rely on reading your body, only?
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Old 12-11-2010, 05:45 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ILoveLifting View Post
Never having played with diet much, how effective would it be just listening to your body? For a cut example, lower carbs until feeling weak. Or, reducing food intake until hunger pains set in and then, re-fuel a bit. Obviously, I have no subject knowledge; I'm very uneducated and ignorant. My basic question is: how effective would it be in regard to dieting to rely on reading your body, only?
Well, when you look at maintaining muscle mass, there are two variables that generally can't be changed:

--Protein. To maximize muscle while dropping fat, it is essential to keep protein levels normal, or even slightly higher than normal.
--Fat. Most bodybuilding cut diets maintain a 20-30% fat intake. Very few drop fat intake while cutting.

This leaves carbs as the primary macronutrient variable for cutting. If you are trying to maximize muscle, you need to be as scientific as possible.

Reading your body or listening to your body can work well for general weight loss, but if you want to look good after the fat loss, and to maintain muscle, fat cutting approaches have to be well-structured and well-thought out.

The best examples are bodybuilders and figure competitors. There are the masters of modern fat cutting. They know how to maximize muscle while losing fat.

Simply losing weight without a proper eating approach will cost you to lose fat and most likely a substantial amount of muscle, which will result in a thinner, but still somewhat flabby physique.

By this I mean someone may lose 40 pounds, but they have lost so much muscle that their bodyfat percentage is still around 20%, or they now look more frail from muscle loss.

Looking fit requires precision.
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Old 12-11-2010, 05:49 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by BendtheBar View Post
Well, when you look at maintaining muscle mass, there are two variables that generally can't be changed:

--Protein. To maximize muscle while dropping fat, it is essential to keep protein levels normal, or even slightly higher than normal.
--Fat. Most bodybuilding cut diets maintain a 20-30% fat intake. Very few drop fat intake while cutting.

This leaves carbs as the primary macronutrient variable for cutting. If you are trying to maximize muscle, you need to be as scientific as possible.

Reading your body or listening to your body can work well for general weight loss, but if you want to look good after the fat loss, and to maintain muscle, fat cutting approaches have to be well-structured and well-thought out.

The best examples are bodybuilders and figure competitors. There are the masters of modern fat cutting. They know how to maximize muscle while losing fat.

Simply losing weight without a proper eating approach will cost you to lose fat and most likely a substantial amount of muscle, which will result in a thinner, but still somewhat flabby physique.

By this I mean someone may lose 40 pounds, but they have lost so much muscle that their bodyfat percentage is still around 20%, or they now look more frail from muscle loss.

Looking fit requires precision.
Thanks for the info pal. If I get my protein and fat in, how important is the carb counting as long as total calorie intake is acceptable?
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Old 12-11-2010, 07:02 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by ILoveLifting View Post
Thanks for the info pal. If I get my protein and fat in, how important is the carb counting as long as total calorie intake is acceptable?
From the lack of response btb, ii'm assuming you've answered my question in your previous post. Still, i don't see the necessity of being so "scientific" dealing with carbs; one burns carbs, therefore, one needs to replenish carbs. However, i respect your advanced opinion and i will pay very close attention to carbs, on your most experienced advise. thank you.
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Old 12-11-2010, 07:22 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ILoveLifting View Post
From the lack of response btb, ii'm assuming you've answered my question in your previous post. Still, i don't see the necessity of being so "scientific" dealing with carbs; one burns carbs, therefore, one needs to replenish carbs. However, i respect your advanced opinion and i will pay very close attention to carbs, on your most experienced advise. thank you.
No man btb will reply to you he is just very busy , and im a bulker i know lots about that just now learnin about cutting, but i know that CARB COUNTING, is VERY IMPORTANT, give btb time he will reply
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Old 12-11-2010, 07:27 PM   #9
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From the lack of response btb, ii'm assuming you've answered my question in your previous post. Still, i don't see the necessity of being so "scientific" dealing with carbs;
I was eating dinner...sorry, I am not at the forum at all times.

Quote:
Thanks for the info pal. If I get my protein and fat in, how important is the carb counting as long as total calorie intake is acceptable?
If you are trying to lose fat you need to have some grasp of what you're eating, so it is necessary to count.

I work in the industry. I talk with dozens of competitors and top level trainers each week. The bottom line really is:

If you want to look great, you have to be precise.

If you just want to lose weight and stay on the endless treadmill like 99% of folks out there trying to figure out why they have lost weight but still don't look great, then don't be precise.

To lose weight, you need not be precise.

To lose weight and to retain muscle and look good you must have some baseline of precision. You can try to listen to your body, but that's not enough. That's vaporous, and based on feelings and impressions rather than biofeedback.

Looking the best you can is about precision. You need to maximize current muscle while losing fat. This requires hard training with weights, ample protein intake, and a reasonable fat intake.

The only variable left for adjustment is carbs.

Beyond that, there are 40+ years of history in the bodybuilding and fitness realm dealing with this subject. The vast majority of competitors that look good use carb cycling. They use this system because it works.

The bottom line comes down to...listen to 40+ years of quality anecdotal evidence...something that works now, and has worked for decades for the best bodies on the planet.

Or, try something new.

Being scientific is a necessity because those who aren't, generally aren't successful unless they have good genetics. How do I know, and why should you listen to me:

1) Again, I work in the industry. I talk to top level athletes, fitness and figure competitors, bodybuilders, and trainers each day. I know what they do to be successful because it is my job to know.

2) It is also my job to field questions. I deal with, and personally answer 50 to 75 diet and training related questions each day from folks that are either beginners or individuals who have tried everything and can't figure out what will work.

What I have learned:

--Those that are successful are precise. They learn their body and are masters of details.

--Those that are NOT successful are trying everything and anything with no reason. They have great intentions, often work hard and eat "healthy", but have not made the commitment to be precise.

Many, many folks are in gyms training with weights and eating what they consider to be "healthy" foods, but still failing miserably. The two things they are lacking are:

1) Progressive resistance.
2) A precise diet. A diet can be a lot looser when trying to bulk or add muscle, but that's for another discussion.
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Old 12-11-2010, 07:32 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by BendtheBar View Post
I was eating dinner...sorry, I am not at the forum at all times.



If you are trying to lose fat you need to have some grasp of what you're eating, so it is necessary to count.

I work in the industry. I talk with dozens of competitors and top level trainers each week. The bottom line really is:

If you want to look great, you have to be precise.

If you just want to lose weight and stay on the endless treadmill like 99% of folks out there trying to figure out why they have lost weight but still don't look great, then don't be precise.

To lose weight, you need not be precise.

To lose weight and to retain muscle and look good you must have some baseline of precision. You can try to listen to your body, but that's not enough. That's vaporous, and based on feelings and impressions rather than biofeedback.

Looking the best you can is about precision. You need to maximize current muscle while losing fat. This requires hard training with weights, ample protein intake, and a reasonable fat intake.

The only variable left for adjustment is carbs.

Beyond that, there are 40+ years of history in the bodybuilding and fitness realm dealing with this subject. The vast majority of competitors that look good use carb cycling. They use this system because it works.

The bottom line comes down to...listen to 40+ years of quality anecdotal evidence...something that works now, and has worked for decades for the best bodies on the planet.

Or, try something new.

Being scientific is a necessity because those who aren't, generally aren't successful unless they have good genetics. How do I know, and why should you listen to me:

1) Again, I work in the industry. I talk to top level athletes, fitness and figure competitors, bodybuilders, and trainers each day. I know what they do to be successful because it is my job to know.

2) It is also my job to field questions. I deal with, and personally answer 50 to 75 diet and training related questions each day from folks that are either beginners or individuals who have tried everything and can't figure out what will work.

What I have learned:

--Those that are successful are precise. They learn their body and are masters of details.

--Those that are NOT successful are trying everything and anything with no reason. They have great intentions, often work hard and eat "healthy", but have not made the commitment to be precise.

Many, many folks are in gyms training with weights and eating what they consider to be "healthy" foods, but still failing miserably. The two things they are lacking are:

1) Progressive resistance.
2) A precise diet. A diet can be a lot looser when trying to bulk or add muscle, but that's for another discussion.

Again, thank you kindly. I'll take this to heart and do as told. You apparently lead this forum, so my faith in you is without question.
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