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Nutrition, Diet and Supplements Discuss nutrition, diet, cutting and weight loss. Supplement discussions as well.

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Old 12-11-2010, 03:00 PM   #1
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Default Need some help on diets, macros and so on!

Im currently working out with an old buddy of mine, he has been lifting off and on for 10 years or so (mostly off lol) so hes not a complete beginner.
Only recently i introduced him to real lifting, focusing on barbell training and so on.

Anyway he's been working the weights with me for 2 months now and has been following my routine (he went straight into my 6 days a week squat/push/pull and he didnt complain a bit, viking material that is). Now he asked me for help getting rid of his 'lovehandles' and harden up a bit in the next 3 months. Well dieting, macros and cal-counting aint my area at all so im asking you guys if you can help out with some good sollutions.


His current stats are
Height - 5.9
Weight - 195 lbs
Bf - ?


Max bench - 235
Max deadlifs - 295
Max squat -265


Any tips or suggestions are appreciated, including supplement reccomendations.

Thanks for reading.
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Old 12-11-2010, 03:06 PM   #2
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Here would be my recommendations: 3900 cals, 370g/+ protien, as much fat as accompanies that ammount of protein, and 100g/- carbs.
Other than typical pre and post workout supplements, I'd also say take a good multi, and an ECA stack.
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Old 12-11-2010, 05:09 PM   #3
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Natural Bodybuilder Brad Borland uses this method:

Protein - 1 to 1.25 grams per pound of bodyweight.
Fats - Keep fat intake at about 30 % of your total calorie intake.
Carbs - Carb Cycling: You will have a low carb day for 3 days (0.5 - 1 gram per pound) followed by a medium carb day (2 grams per pound) and finally a high carb day (2.5 to 3 grams per pound).

So based on his weight, a starting point would be:

Protein - 195 to 240 grams per day
Carbs: A high, medium and low day like this:

Low for 3 days - 95 grams to 195 grams of carbs
Medium for 1 day - 390 grams
High for 1 day - 485 to 585 grams

Fats - 30% as follows:

On Low Carb days - About 600 calories, or 66-67 grams. This varies based on carbs and proteins.
On Medium days - About 1040 cals, or 115 grams.
On High days - About 1290 cals, or 143 grams.

Calories are about:

Low Carb Days - 1657 to 2486 cals
Med Carb Days - 3342 to 3600 cals
High Carb Days - 3885 to 4710 cals

Zig Zag method

Based on an approx. lean mass. 7 day eating plan, including high and low days:

* 3000 calories
* 2600 calories
* 3000 calories
* 2600 calories
* 3000 calories
* 2600 calories
* 2600 calories

Low, Medium and High Calorie Cycling for Fat Loss

* Monday - 2100 calories (Low). 200 grams of protein, 70 grams of fat (roughly 30% of calories), and 167.5 grams of carbs.
* Tuesday - 2700 calories (Moderate). 200 grams of protein, 90 grams of fat (roughly 30% of calories), and 272.5 grams of carbs.
* Wednesday - 3300 calories (High). 200 grams of protein, 100 grams of fat (roughly 30% of calories), and 400 grams of carbs.
* Thursday - 2100 calories (Low). 200 grams of protein, 70 grams of fat (roughly 30% of calories), and 167.5 grams of carbs.
* Friday - 2700 calories (Moderate). 200 grams of protein, 90 grams of fat (roughly 30% of calories), and 272.5 grams of carbs.
* Saturday - 3300 calories (High). 200 grams of protein, 100 grams of fat (roughly 30% of calories), and 400 grams of carbs.
* Sunday - 2700 calories (Moderate). 200 grams of protein, 90 grams of fat (roughly 30% of calories), and 272.5 grams of carbs.
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Old 12-11-2010, 05:27 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BendtheBar View Post
Natural Bodybuilder Brad Borland uses this method:

Protein - 1 to 1.25 grams per pound of bodyweight.
Fats - Keep fat intake at about 30 % of your total calorie intake.
Carbs - Carb Cycling: You will have a low carb day for 3 days (0.5 - 1 gram per pound) followed by a medium carb day (2 grams per pound) and finally a high carb day (2.5 to 3 grams per pound).

So based on his weight, a starting point would be:

Protein - 195 to 240 grams per day
Carbs: A high, medium and low day like this:

Low for 3 days - 95 grams to 195 grams of carbs
Medium for 1 day - 390 grams
High for 1 day - 485 to 585 grams

Fats - 30% as follows:

On Low Carb days - About 600 calories, or 66-67 grams. This varies based on carbs and proteins.
On Medium days - About 1040 cals, or 115 grams.
On High days - About 1290 cals, or 143 grams.

Calories are about:

Low Carb Days - 1657 to 2486 cals
Med Carb Days - 3342 to 3600 cals
High Carb Days - 3885 to 4710 cals

Zig Zag method

Based on an approx. lean mass. 7 day eating plan, including high and low days:

* 3000 calories
* 2600 calories
* 3000 calories
* 2600 calories
* 3000 calories
* 2600 calories
* 2600 calories

Low, Medium and High Calorie Cycling for Fat Loss

* Monday - 2100 calories (Low). 200 grams of protein, 70 grams of fat (roughly 30% of calories), and 167.5 grams of carbs.
* Tuesday - 2700 calories (Moderate). 200 grams of protein, 90 grams of fat (roughly 30% of calories), and 272.5 grams of carbs.
* Wednesday - 3300 calories (High). 200 grams of protein, 100 grams of fat (roughly 30% of calories), and 400 grams of carbs.
* Thursday - 2100 calories (Low). 200 grams of protein, 70 grams of fat (roughly 30% of calories), and 167.5 grams of carbs.
* Friday - 2700 calories (Moderate). 200 grams of protein, 90 grams of fat (roughly 30% of calories), and 272.5 grams of carbs.
* Saturday - 3300 calories (High). 200 grams of protein, 100 grams of fat (roughly 30% of calories), and 400 grams of carbs.
* Sunday - 2700 calories (Moderate). 200 grams of protein, 90 grams of fat (roughly 30% of calories), and 272.5 grams of carbs.

Never having played with diet much, how effective would it be just listening to your body? For a cut example, lower carbs until feeling weak. Or, reducing food intake until hunger pains set in and then, re-fuel a bit. Obviously, I have no subject knowledge; I'm very uneducated and ignorant. My basic question is: how effective would it be in regard to dieting to rely on reading your body, only?
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Old 12-11-2010, 05:45 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ILoveLifting View Post
Never having played with diet much, how effective would it be just listening to your body? For a cut example, lower carbs until feeling weak. Or, reducing food intake until hunger pains set in and then, re-fuel a bit. Obviously, I have no subject knowledge; I'm very uneducated and ignorant. My basic question is: how effective would it be in regard to dieting to rely on reading your body, only?
Well, when you look at maintaining muscle mass, there are two variables that generally can't be changed:

--Protein. To maximize muscle while dropping fat, it is essential to keep protein levels normal, or even slightly higher than normal.
--Fat. Most bodybuilding cut diets maintain a 20-30% fat intake. Very few drop fat intake while cutting.

This leaves carbs as the primary macronutrient variable for cutting. If you are trying to maximize muscle, you need to be as scientific as possible.

Reading your body or listening to your body can work well for general weight loss, but if you want to look good after the fat loss, and to maintain muscle, fat cutting approaches have to be well-structured and well-thought out.

The best examples are bodybuilders and figure competitors. There are the masters of modern fat cutting. They know how to maximize muscle while losing fat.

Simply losing weight without a proper eating approach will cost you to lose fat and most likely a substantial amount of muscle, which will result in a thinner, but still somewhat flabby physique.

By this I mean someone may lose 40 pounds, but they have lost so much muscle that their bodyfat percentage is still around 20%, or they now look more frail from muscle loss.

Looking fit requires precision.
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Old 12-11-2010, 05:49 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BendtheBar View Post
Well, when you look at maintaining muscle mass, there are two variables that generally can't be changed:

--Protein. To maximize muscle while dropping fat, it is essential to keep protein levels normal, or even slightly higher than normal.
--Fat. Most bodybuilding cut diets maintain a 20-30% fat intake. Very few drop fat intake while cutting.

This leaves carbs as the primary macronutrient variable for cutting. If you are trying to maximize muscle, you need to be as scientific as possible.

Reading your body or listening to your body can work well for general weight loss, but if you want to look good after the fat loss, and to maintain muscle, fat cutting approaches have to be well-structured and well-thought out.

The best examples are bodybuilders and figure competitors. There are the masters of modern fat cutting. They know how to maximize muscle while losing fat.

Simply losing weight without a proper eating approach will cost you to lose fat and most likely a substantial amount of muscle, which will result in a thinner, but still somewhat flabby physique.

By this I mean someone may lose 40 pounds, but they have lost so much muscle that their bodyfat percentage is still around 20%, or they now look more frail from muscle loss.

Looking fit requires precision.
Thanks for the info pal. If I get my protein and fat in, how important is the carb counting as long as total calorie intake is acceptable?
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Old 12-11-2010, 11:11 PM   #7
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Take time to read through this, all the info and math is laid out for you.

Not saying what Borland does is incorrect in ANY way at all, but it is very complicated and the constant changing of macros gets frustrating and very stressful, zigzaging is very hard to manage, and mess up.

Im a man of simplicity, determine your LBM, find macros using MATH (OHH NOOOO!) and stick to a solid diet plan.

Given in this link is my advice thread on dieting, bring yourself over to it and ill try my best to monitor and help. Dieting is my thing

http://muscleandbrawn.com/forums/nut...diet-help.html
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Old 12-12-2010, 05:06 AM   #8
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Thanks a lot for the replys guys, will dig into this jungle of variables later on today when i got more time.
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Old 12-22-2010, 02:27 AM   #9
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This is a summary of what I did to lose 20lbs over a few months, without dropping my calories.

Steve is right in that carbs are the real key to burning fat.

Our body is best at burning body-fat for energy during our rest times, through just plain metabolism. The only problem is, as soon as we eat something, carbs specifically. a switch goes off and our body begins burning the food we ate as it is being processed into glucose. The same doesn't seem to happen with fats or protein, in my opinion this is why low-carb diets work even without ketosis.
The problem with just going low or carb free is ketosis, I don't want to start an Atkins fight, it's just wasn't right for me. The one time I was in ketosis many years ago, I was lethargic and couldn't work out well at all.
I knew I needed either glucose or glycogen to have good workouts so I decided to make like a runner and carb-load to re-store glycogen in the evenings so I would be able to workout the following day without pre-workout carbs.

This way I had the day-time hours to focus on fat-burning, I called it my "fat-burning window" where I limited my carbs to <20 net and ate mostly protein snacks until about 5pm. Then I ate the rest of my calories and carbs over my dinner and a snack or two before bed.
I began my Spike or cheat day at 5pm on Friday and carried through all day Saturday to re-store glycogen even further which made my Sunday workout simply amazing.


My calorie goal Sun-Thurs was straight BMR, this gave me the deficit needed to burn fat.
Macro split 50% protein - 25% Carbs - 25%fat
Friday morning-5pm low carbs. after 5pm whatever I wanted calories up to 2X BMR
Saturday calories 2XBMR

I lifted 5 days a week, and took Friday and Saturday off. Zero cardio.


There's many ways to get ripped, and it's all personally choice. I really loved doing it this way. I dropped a bunch of bodyfat as you can see in the pics. Plus it was nice being able to have larger dinners with the family every night, instead of making myself grilled chicken for every dinner.
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Old 12-22-2010, 01:36 PM   #10
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Kevin Bacon?

No but really though, you are correct, I was honestly the most lean/dry/ripped 3 weeks out from my competition, at that point in my diet I was around 40-80g carbs a day, only consuming them twice daily, breakfast and pre-workout. AND now that I know this, it will be a little weapon. Needless to say the 3 weeks I had left to show date carbs were bumped and cycled differently. Which pretty well shocked my body and made me fuller and softer looking, carbs are indeed the main key to losing bodyfat.
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