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Nutrition, Diet and Supplements Discuss nutrition, diet, cutting and weight loss. Supplement discussions as well.

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Old 10-02-2014, 10:13 AM   #1
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Default Diet and muscle building

A quote from the web:

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Nutrition is the most overlooked aspect of building muscle. Stop focusing so much on training and get your diet in check.
I guess this made me think about the average Joe. Most of us are good at eating enough food, but is the average Joe really good at maximizing sets, choosing exercises, structuring programming and progressing in weight?

Personally I think that if average Joe just makes sure to eat a reasonable amount of protein he doesn't have to sweat much else about his diet. I believe it's the training that poses the problem for most.

What say you?
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Old 10-02-2014, 11:12 AM   #2
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I think both training & diet are important, BUT... eating 200g of protein a day wont do you much good if your not maximizing your training. If your using a solid program/routine and maximizing every set you can still get stronger even if your diet is not so great. But the opposite is not true, having a good diet is not going to build muscle all by itself, you have to train hard. You see guys all the time, they do a few curls, chug a protein shake, and then wonder why they dont make any progress. IMO, diet is very important but it's not as big a factor as your training.
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Old 10-02-2014, 11:42 AM   #3
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If the quote was for losing weight I'd agree (smoked my @$$ on the bike for 22mins and only burned 200 calories! I could eat that in a mouthful).

IMO Average Joe researches thousands of programs, exercises and get-big-quick schemes because it's easy and interesting and fun. Looking at foods and counting calories, understanding BMR, tweaking diet for the right balance, that's takes up too much brainpower and is boring. People can do the exercise but not diet.

That being said, eat right all you like and you'll never gain without working out. Workout without eating right and you'll just have slow progress.
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Old 10-02-2014, 12:13 PM   #4
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I spent years learning how to train. This includes correct exercise form, exercise programming, routine programming, rest time between sets, rest days. I'm no expert, but I have the basic concepts down.
Learning how to train is important.

Only in the last year or 2 have I started learning about diet and manipulating it accordingly. Once again, I am no expert, but I have started learning basic concepts and how to apply them accordingly. Even with these simple basics, it has made a huge impact.

Diet control and manipulation has opened up an extremely useful variable that I never had control of or utilized before in the past.

Anyone who has owned a sports car with a manual transmission will understand this:
Diet is to lifting, as the stick shift is to vehicle performance.
Having the stick shift allows you to control another variable in your vehicle that lets you maximize power and engine performance, that you otherwise wouldn't have.

I believe, that if more trainees put more emphasis on diet and learning how to monitor, control and manipulate it, they would more effectively maximize progress. Whether the goal is to get stronger, build muscle, or lose fat, understanding of ones diet will allow them to more efficently reach those goals.

Not saying someone cannot necessarliy progress otherwise, but I am saying in a "culture" where we (collectively) drop hundreds of thousands of dollars on supplements to maximize gains each year, it could almost be looked at as self defeating or counter productive to not have some sort of grasp on dietary intake.
Diet will have more of an impact on OTC supplements, 10 out of 10 times.

Why let the diet variable go unutilized?

Just my opinion.
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Old 10-02-2014, 01:11 PM   #5
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Most people don't put any focus on training at all. Sure, some "go hard" in the gym, but they usually have ny rhyme or reason behind what they are doing. The whole "diet vs training" argument is stupid. They work TOGETHER to get you where you want to be. Put focus on both and use the tools available to you, which means actually knowing what you're doing and why you're doing it in both the gym AND the kitchen.
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Old 10-02-2014, 06:36 PM   #6
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The average Joe and the average American are over fed and under nourished as obesity rate are rising.Like most people who start training we learn about how to lift and we learn about supplements before we learn about nutrition and for us who lift when we first started(I know I did) we were told that protien was the most important thing to get enough and don't eat this and that and some where all along the line we wised up and started to read all about proper nutrition. So yes I would say that nutrition play 95% of your gains in building muscle, strength and most of all your overall health, I have a AAS in nutrition and when I was practicing I would always tell my patients this: What you do by age 30,will tell on you by 60 and I would let them know that you want you inner working like arteries ,heart veins and all other vital organs to be age appropriate I.E. : if you are a 25 year old man you want 25 year old arteries not 80 year old man arteries. So I do not like to use the word diet, spell the first three letter and you why! I tell people to get into good eating habits and it alright to let yourself off the "wagon" and some good stuff or eat some food that taste good and fatning, just have enough to to satisfy your craving and get back on your game.
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Old 10-02-2014, 07:20 PM   #7
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I believe the average Joe does not know how to eat. It took me 10 years to learn how to do it, and even recently I was forced to make even more adjustments. I put just as much effort into learning how to eat, for my body, as I did for lifting.

During all these years, I have read lots of books, major league trial and error, and have spoken to many Doc's, including a heart surgeon.

I believe, especially for someone my age, that lifting follows health. Without the diet I have now, there is now way I would have been able to achieve the numbers I have that are in my signature, naturally anyway. All the coaching and training in the World wouldn't have done me any good.

So, I believe that diet is King.

Proper food intake was the biggest factor in me saving my eyesight from Birdshot.

As I have read here before, you can't out-train a lousy diet.
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Old 10-02-2014, 08:56 PM   #8
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You are correct sir
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Old 10-03-2014, 06:07 AM   #9
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They go hand in hand... Doing just one or the other, will only take you so far. You can have poor diet and make newbie gains.. You can also have a poor work out routine with a great diet and see gains BUT it only takes you so far. You will see results up front, but very quickly drop and flatten out. This is when many get discouraged and quit. Then the cycle starts over again.
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Old 10-03-2014, 07:57 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BendtheBar View Post
A quote from the web:



I guess this made me think about the average Joe. Most of us are good at eating enough food, but is the average Joe really good at maximizing sets, choosing exercises, structuring programming and progressing in weight?

Personally I think that if average Joe just makes sure to eat a reasonable amount of protein he doesn't have to sweat much else about his diet. I believe it's the training that poses the problem for most.

What say you?
They are both equally important. They both provide "the stimulus" to ones physical personal goals. The stimulus outcome depends on the contents of application of each, and ones personal and genetic disposition. How these are manipulated depends on the personal goal, and thus reveals the beauty of continually learning about the contents of diet and the contents of different types of training.

Quote:
Personally I think that if average Joe just makes sure to eat a reasonable amount of protein he doesn't have to sweat much else about his diet. I believe it's the training that poses the problem for most.
With respect, this statement is far too broad, and does not take into account differing personal goals, where calories (and in some cases carbohydrates) would be important in different personal goal applications, and those trying to solicit a certain bodily responses(through manipulation of calories, and carbohydrates).

We all need protein regardless whether we train with weights or not. I would argue we need a bit more when training for strength and growth (of course), but would also argue that it is potentially more important where calories are cut (a calorie deficit) to solicit tissue loss (for obvious reasons).

Diet content manipulation to earn a certain physical response, that is adjoined with a weight training program (to support this wanted response) is a very powerful team. In some cases within a persons personal goal, diet "can" determine what type of training is performed. Likewise, in some personal cases training can determine the type of diet. This just "depends" on the goal wanted, and brings forth one reason why studying how to manipulate contents of diet and training is important, and....it is more than just training alone.

In my opinion, is very intelligent to study calories, macros (carbohydrates, fats, and protein), and micronutrients, and how these apply to you personally, and take the time to study the different ways to manipulate these for a desired outcome.

I would not be one-track-minded and think that training is the "only" thing that is important. If one does, they miss out a powerful thing to manipulate and that is:

DIET

We have to remember, not everyone aspires to be a power lifter (sacrilege I know, lol ). Likewise, a persons goal can be different from one person to the next. With this in mind, the total contents of diet (rather then just protein) can be very significant in determining the outcome of ones personal goal (it just depends).



With peace and love,

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