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Nutrition, Diet and Supplements Discuss nutrition, diet, cutting and weight loss. Supplement discussions as well.

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Old 06-16-2014, 09:17 AM   #1
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Old 06-16-2014, 09:28 AM   #2
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Hell no, it isn't. I've proved that, to my own satisfaction, over enough time to be pretty damn sure of it.

What's more, calorie counting is likewise unnecessary, except in certain very particular circumstances. Again, proven IME.
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Old 06-16-2014, 09:34 AM   #3
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IMO, not to the extent that some folks take it. (In the interest of full disclosure, I am a heavy dude, but I was 395lbs before I started training and am only 8lbs heavier than that now). I Dont feel you can put on very much muscle while still maintaining visible abs, but there is no need to put on 40-50lbs for the sake of calling it a bulk. I say eat 300-500 above maintenance and keep a close eye on your body fat. If it starts getting out of hand, add in a LITTLE MORE hiit on off days. That's just my take, but I'm still a noob, so it isn't worth much.
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Old 06-16-2014, 09:48 AM   #4
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I prefer extended lean bulks. These aren't going to get anyone fat, and the addition of muscle mass helps with body composition.
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Old 06-16-2014, 09:50 AM   #5
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Natural lifters can only put on so much LBM anyway. So why eat so much when you can not utilize ALL that food for muscle gains? That's why lazy lifters get fat.

Far too many people do what the magazines say that a particular pro does. It doesn't work for individuals who are not on gear, plain and simple.

AND, all these new people wanting to know what is better, cutting or bulking? How about lifting? You have nothing to show for a "cut."

My pet peeve: people that use the term "cutting." Unless you compete, you don't need to do it, at all.
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Old 06-16-2014, 11:52 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BendtheBar View Post
I prefer extended lean bulks. These aren't going to get anyone fat, and the addition of muscle mass helps with body composition.
Steve Can you give some information about Leanbulk please ?
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Old 06-16-2014, 04:03 PM   #7
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Again, it depends on the "starting position" or "current position" on which route the person chooses to go. I know I say this a lot, but its true. I mean, if you mean a body builder, who for the past off-season has ate grocery loads of food for 6 months, and then is prepping for contest, then obviously he needs to cut before the show. Then a "cut" is in for this person.

Now, for example, if you are talking about the "average" male, that at age 23, is at average weight (and not fat, for example) for his height, and is "beginning" to lift (again for example), and wants strength and/or muscle as the goal, then I would definitely recommend a slow lean bulk and this bulk/cut is nonsense.

Now, for example, if you are talking about a severely overweight person, and the goal is to gain strength, but lose fat tissue, then this again, deems a different set of perimeters that would be akin to a cut, or a diet which solicits correct tissue loss.

Now, As far as Calorie Counting. I am in "for what works for the individual" and gets the job in which they want done, completed. I DO ADVOCATE calorie counting if it works for the person, and will not blanket a recommendation not doing it for this reason.

If it is not necessary, and this is done visually/mentally (by the plethora of ways it can be done with the "experienced"), then by all means, this is the correct thing do too. And, I advocate this as well. The bottom line is: Finding the "method" in which works, and what works for one, does not for another.

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Old 06-16-2014, 04:13 PM   #8
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I believe that to maximize results as far as muscle gain and fat loss are concerned, one needs to utilize periods of cutting and bulking.
Its a fact(for the natural lifter) that you can't put on muscle without a caloric excess and you can't loss fat without a caloric deficit.
Not aiming for one or the other is spinning the wheels IMO.

I am cautious of the idea of the term lean bulk. I feel to many weightlifters use that concept as an excuse not go all in and make some gains. You want to get big and strong, open your mouth, shovel in some food and put more weight on the bar.Period.
However, I do believe in the idea of minimizing fat gains while increasing muscle. Especially in regards to more experienced lifters. This can be accomplished by simply monitoring and controling the caloric excess that one is utilizing to gain. Yes, you need a caloric excess to gain, however this doesn't always mean you have to go bat shit crazy and eat pizza, cheeseburgers and fettucini alfredo every day. Although, one could argue even for that there is a time and a place as well.

Also, I am extemely cautious of people dismissing calorie counting. It's worked really well for many people for many many years. Just because you don't have the desire to utilize this dietary tool, doesn't mean it should be dismissed.
Caloric intake is one of the(if not the) most important variable that you have control over when it comes to muscle and fat goals. Monitoring, tracking and manipulating this variable can maximize muscle gain while minimizing fat gain or maximize fat loss while minimizing muscle loss.
I'm not saying I count calories year round or that one can't make progress without counting calories, but I am saying that calorie counting is a valuable tool that gives you insight, control and therefore more effective and efficent results that you may not otherwise capture.
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Old 06-16-2014, 06:11 PM   #9
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I will add that 90% of the Nutritional ifo out there applies to younger (under 40 yrs old) lifters.

I also believe 100% the rules are much different when you get past mid-forties. I track all my calories, and every 2 weeks I summarize, and look at what I have eaten, and what effects it has on my body.

I have spent a month eating X number of calories and X amount of carbs, and gained fat, I have then spend a month eating the exact same number of calories, but lower the carbs and raise the protein, and lost weight.

Even though all of us are somewhat similar, we are all different to some degree...believe me, I wish it was not the case. There is very little strength training nutritional information for older lifters out there....I learned almost everything I know from trail and error.
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Old 06-16-2014, 06:46 PM   #10
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I've made the progress I should be making muscle and strength wise, gaining the right amount of weight I need to be, and I haven't seen or measured a shred of difference in my body fat levels.

My abs are still perfectly visible as they were before.
In fact, as I've built more muscle they've become more pronounced.

I've seen several transformations, where the lifter hasn't needed to cut.

And I'm not talking about maintaining a lean body fat percentage, and making very little progress.
You don't have to be sub optimal to do it.



As Steve says, adding 30 pounds of muscle will make you look 100 times better than you do now.

That's a sentiment I'll be continuing to keep in my mind throughout this journey.

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