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Nutrition, Diet and Supplements Discuss nutrition, diet, cutting and weight loss. Supplement discussions as well.

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Old 06-19-2012, 12:42 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Tannhauser View Post
OR, are you finding that things taste sweeter and sweeter as you get older? For example, I find it really hard to eat milk chocolate now: it just feels like I've emptied a sugar bowl into my mouth.

It's really weird.
I've noticed that too. I still eat it, but it definitely tastes sweeter. Like you, I find that I have more cravings now for bitter and salty snacks rather than super sweet snacks. I also find that I now prefer mustard over ketchup.

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Old 06-19-2012, 01:30 PM   #12
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I was never a calorie soda guy but I did pound calorie-dense cappuccino; usually the convenience store kind, 20 ouncers, packed with sugar. Most likely I was taking in 1500 calories a day from these alone.
I can see how easy it is to get hooked on these. They do taste pretty good as well. I do like coffee but the cappuccino just tastes better.
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Old 06-19-2012, 02:26 PM   #13
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Tannhauser when you get an hour watch this vid.

Last edited by BendtheBar; 06-19-2012 at 03:37 PM.
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Old 06-19-2012, 03:26 PM   #14
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[url=http://youtu.be/dBnniua6-oM]Sugar: The Bitter Truth - YouTube[/url

Tannhauser when you get an hour watch this vid.
I think I saw that when it first came out. I'm familiar with Lustig, or believe that I am. In fact, he is on the 'The Men That Made Us Fat' video, which BTB has posted up.

There's a nice scientific critique of his views by the very wonderful Alan Aragorn here
.

Although this isn't a discussion on HFCS, there's an evidence-based discussion of its risks here
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Old 06-19-2012, 03:50 PM   #15
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I know little about Lustig and his opinion. Just tossing this out to further the discussion.

A snippet from Naughton and Taubes:

Quote:
Fat Head: Dr. Robert Lustig insists it’s fructose that makes us insulin resistant, not starchy foods. If he’s right, then it was the Coca-Cola and Captain Crunch that turned me into a fat kid, not the mashed potatoes. But as an adult, I’ve avoided sugar yet found that starches most definitely make me gain weight. So assuming for the sake of argument that Lustig is correct, would you say that once fructose has done the damage, we lose our tolerance for carbohydrates in general? If so, why?

Gary Taubes: That’s exactly the possibility I’m discussing. Once you become insulin resistant, your body responds to carbs by secreting more insulin. So it is quite possible — and laboratory work backs this up — that sugar causes the initial insulin resistance because of the effect of the fructose on the liver. So if we never had sugar, we’d be able to eat the other carbs with relative impunity. But being possible doesn’t mean it’s true. I suspect it is, but I’m not sure exactly how this can be tested.

And I agree with you: the world is full of obese and diabetic people who know enough not to eat sugar, but remain obese and diabetic. I could avoid sugar and go back to eating starches and put on 20 pounds of fat effortlessly. I’ve done it in the past — distant past. So I don’t buy the idea that avoiding sugar is enough to make an obese person lean again. And the people I know who believe that all tend to be somewhat plump despite their beliefs. In fact, I recently heard Dr. Lustig give a talk in San Francisco, and he acknowledged that he still has a weight problem, but doesn’t know what to do about it. Hmmm….
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Old 06-19-2012, 04:18 PM   #16
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Not sure I get you.

Above the bit you quote, Aragon acknowledges that survey data isn't brilliant:

Quote:
Survey data is far from the gold standard of evidence, but if you’re gonna cite it, you might as well go with something more recent that includes adults.
Re: confounding variables.

In this case:

Independent variables: proportion of kcals from various sources
Dependent variable: levels of obesity

What confounding variables should he be considering in order to establish that obesity is linked to overall increase kcal consumption? Not energy expenditure as he goes on to mention this as a factor below.

I certaiinly agree that confounding variables are the major issue in establishing causality - just having difficulty applying it here.
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Old 06-19-2012, 04:24 PM   #17
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I've noticed that too. I still eat it, but it definitely tastes sweeter. Like you, I find that I have more cravings now for bitter and salty snacks rather than super sweet snacks. I also find that I now prefer mustard over ketchup.
Mrs T has noticed it too. I'm convinced it's an age-related change that no one tells you about when you're twenty.
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Old 06-19-2012, 05:53 PM   #18
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Taking a hard look at the data above, it appears that the rise in obesity is due in large part to an increase in caloric intake in general, rather than an increase in added sugars in particular.
Perhaps the confounding variable is that the nutritionally empty calories of additional sugar intake drive us to eat more food. There may be plenty other possible confounding variables...hormonal impact, etc.

We tend to see in data what we are looking for. I could say the increase in consumption of foods that are nutritionally light, such as sugar, drives us to eat more. I think this would be a valid observation.

In either case, I would ask myself what the possible confounding variables might be. I'm not sure Alan did that here. I have no horse in this race, and I'm not saying I disagree with him, but I tend to think the issue is far more complex than his observation.
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Old 06-19-2012, 10:58 PM   #19
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I think I saw that when it first came out. I'm familiar with Lustig, or believe that I am. In fact, he is on the 'The Men That Made Us Fat' video, which BTB has posted up.

There's a nice scientific critique of his views by the very wonderful Alan Aragorn here
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Although this isn't a discussion on HFCS, there's an evidence-based discussion of its risks here
Thanks Tannhauser!
I didnt like that Aragorn is using incomplete estimation on food loss done by USDA as counter evidence to Lustig's increase in grains and sugar anti USDA policy argument
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