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Nutrition, Diet and Supplements Discuss nutrition, diet, cutting and weight loss. Supplement discussions as well.

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Old 09-22-2012, 04:57 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by Randoja View Post
I suppose that depends on your definition of "big." I have a good friend who is 5'11 210-215, very lean and natty. I consider him "big" and he has never used IF. That is the point I was trying to make. Gear doesn't even enter my thought process when I talk about things like this.
I completely agree that for genetically average, natural lifters, he is close to his potential. Unfortunately, that's not the 3 lbs/inch physique that stands out at a bar. To the uninformed masses, they don't see years of dedication or perhaps a genetically gifted individual, they see a guy that's in really good shape. That said, if a natural lifter could completely stop worrying about dieting and drop his body fat by few percent all at the potential expense of only a few pounds of muscle (I gained muscle on the LG approach) that most people wouldn't notice anyway, why wouldn't he?
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Old 09-22-2012, 06:34 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by Donkeypuncher View Post
I completely agree that for genetically average, natural lifters, he is close to his potential. Unfortunately, that's not the 3 lbs/inch physique that stands out at a bar. To the uninformed masses, they don't see years of dedication or perhaps a genetically gifted individual, they see a guy that's in really good shape. That said, if a natural lifter could completely stop worrying about dieting and drop his body fat by few percent all at the potential expense of only a few pounds of muscle (I gained muscle on the LG approach) that most people wouldn't notice anyway, why wouldn't he?
As far as i know, LG doest allow one to stop worrying about dieting. There is still much to do with counting cals and macros.

most LG'ers are small people trying to get leaner. most do gain some muscle because i feel it forces them to eat more than they previously did, as well as train consistantly.

i dont know any natty guys who are large and lean...know plenty that are either big or lean.
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Old 09-23-2012, 12:41 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by Donkeypuncher View Post
I completely agree that for genetically average, natural lifters, he is close to his potential. Unfortunately, that's not the 3 lbs/inch physique that stands out at a bar. To the uninformed masses, they don't see years of dedication or perhaps a genetically gifted individual, they see a guy that's in really good shape. That said, if a natural lifter could completely stop worrying about dieting and drop his body fat by few percent all at the potential expense of only a few pounds of muscle (I gained muscle on the LG approach) that most people wouldn't notice anyway, why wouldn't he?
So you are saying that it is impossible to get a physique that will turn heads while remaining natty? If so, I would have to disagree with that. Not sure I understand what you mean in bold. I don't see how the scenario you are describing differs from any cut. Also IMO IFers don't get to stop "worrying about diet."
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Old 09-24-2012, 08:23 PM   #54
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So you are saying that it is impossible to get a physique that will turn heads while remaining natty? If so, I would have to disagree with that. Not sure I understand what you mean in bold. I don't see how the scenario you are describing differs from any cut. Also IMO IFers don't get to stop "worrying about diet."
I'm sure you can find some natural bodybuilders that are exceptions to the rule, but you're living a pipe dream if you believe that just any natural lifter can walk around at a 5'7'' and a shredded 230 lbs through hard work and determination. Ulisses Williams Jr is about the best natural bodybuilder around and he's 5'10'' and 205 lbs in the offseason. He has great aesthetics, but that's not exactly huge. The scenario I described differs from any other "cut" because you don't have to continuously stop your day to eat, deprive yourself of food groups, or plan meals ahead of time. I've been at this for over 10 years now and I can tell you that eating 5 lbs of hamburger throughout the day is a huge stress and waste of time compared to simply coming home, eating basically whatever I want, and maintaining a lean physique. Before I make my daily Dunkin' run, riddle me this, why are you so adamantly opposed to IF when plenty veteran lifters are espousing its benefits?
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Old 09-24-2012, 09:30 PM   #55
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As far as i know, LG doest allow one to stop worrying about dieting. There is still much to do with counting cals and macros.

most LG'ers are small people trying to get leaner. most do gain some muscle because i feel it forces them to eat more than they previously did, as well as train consistantly.

i dont know any natty guys who are large and lean...know plenty that are either big or lean.
Chris Duffin is a proponent of IF and a world-class powerlifter.
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Old 09-25-2012, 07:45 AM   #56
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How many natural lifters are lean and carry appreciable mass, regardless of their methodology? Let's be honest, not many.
Not many. So, why do IF?

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Chris Duffin is a proponent of IF and a world-class powerlifter.
KB Face Pull - YouTube
If he's gassing, it just proves my earlier point about the uselessness of IF for natural trainers.
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Old 09-25-2012, 08:14 AM   #57
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Chris Duffin is a proponent of IF and a world-class powerlifter.
KB Face Pull - YouTube
Ok....so?

he is 6' 200lbs....not exactly huge. he is a strong mofo for sure, but i think we were talking about size, not strength.

only issue i have with IF is the cult like mentality. most them think everyone else is doing it wrong even though for decades bodybuilders have been doing the same thing.
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Old 09-25-2012, 12:12 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by Donkeypuncher View Post
I'm sure you can find some natural bodybuilders that are exceptions to the rule, but you're living a pipe dream if you believe that just any natural lifter can walk around at a 5'7'' and a shredded 230 lbs through hard work and determination. Ulisses Williams Jr is about the best natural bodybuilder around and he's 5'10'' and 205 lbs in the offseason. He has great aesthetics, but that's not exactly huge. The scenario I described differs from any other "cut" because you don't have to continuously stop your day to eat, deprive yourself of food groups, or plan meals ahead of time. I've been at this for over 10 years now and I can tell you that eating 5 lbs of hamburger throughout the day is a huge stress and waste of time compared to simply coming home, eating basically whatever I want, and maintaining a lean physique. Before I make my daily Dunkin' run, riddle me this, why are you so adamantly opposed to IF when plenty veteran lifters are espousing its benefits?
I'm not adamantly opposed to it, I just don't believe that it is optimum. Plus IMO the only thing stressful about eating 5lbs of hamburger throughout the day is the chance that you could run out of ketchup.

BRB 5'6" weight range 235-250. Hard work and determination seems to be paying off for Marc.
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Old 09-25-2012, 01:01 PM   #59
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Marc WAS natural.


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Old 09-25-2012, 01:18 PM   #60
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Let's be careful about attaching labels to lifters names. We all know how that game ends.

Here is some info on natural potential:

http://muscleandbrawn.com/determinin...ing-potential/
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