Muscle and Brawn Forums
 

Go Back   Muscle and Brawn Forums > Training > Muscle Building and Bodybuilding

Notices

Muscle Building and Bodybuilding Topics related to muscle building, bodybuilding, including training and fullbody workouts. If you are looking for great advice on gaining muscle this forum is for you.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 04-01-2012, 12:00 PM   #1
wannabesquatter
Junior Member
New Brawn
Points: 174, Level: 3 Points: 174, Level: 3 Points: 174, Level: 3
Activity: 3% Activity: 3% Activity: 3%
 

Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 23
Reputation: 260
wannabesquatter is off to a good startwannabesquatter is off to a good startwannabesquatter is off to a good start
Default Symptoms of Overtraining

I am just starting the body building process. I just want to know what are some symptoms of overtraining? I have not done a whole lot but just want to see what the danger of it there is.
wannabesquatter is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 04-01-2012, 12:07 PM   #2
Off Road
Senior Member
Max Brawn
Points: 17,091, Level: 83 Points: 17,091, Level: 83 Points: 17,091, Level: 83
Activity: 1% Activity: 1% Activity: 1%
 
Off Road's Avatar
 
Tournaments Won: 9

Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 7,607
Reputation: 786994
Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!
Default

The biggies are; A consistent loss in strength, a constant feeling of fatigue, a loss of appetite, irregular sleep patterns, and prolonged sickness.

This is not to be confused with a general feeling of fatigue, a temporary loss in strength, etc...Which are pretty common for people that train hard.

General fatigue symptoms come on pretty quickly and pass pretty quickly, but true over training takes a long time to reach and often even longer to get over.
Off Road is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2012, 12:20 PM   #3
Transformed
Member
Brawn
Points: 452, Level: 9 Points: 452, Level: 9 Points: 452, Level: 9
Activity: 5% Activity: 5% Activity: 5%
 

Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 54
Reputation: 260
Transformed is off to a good startTransformed is off to a good startTransformed is off to a good start
Default

Lack of motivation, fatigue, loss of weight, no energy, insomnia, headaches, increased blood pressure. The list goes on and on.
Transformed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2012, 12:25 PM   #4
ONpump17
Perservere
Max Brawn
Points: 6,485, Level: 52 Points: 6,485, Level: 52 Points: 6,485, Level: 52
Activity: 3% Activity: 3% Activity: 3%
 
ONpump17's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,077
Training Exp: 4 serious years, 1 meet
Training Type: Powerlifting
Fav Exercise: Deadlift
Fav Supp: Water
Reputation: 29537
ONpump17 is a lifting machineONpump17 is a lifting machineONpump17 is a lifting machineONpump17 is a lifting machineONpump17 is a lifting machineONpump17 is a lifting machineONpump17 is a lifting machineONpump17 is a lifting machineONpump17 is a lifting machineONpump17 is a lifting machineONpump17 is a lifting machine
Default

It's a quite debatable topic, especially if you were to look beyond bodybuilding and into some of the strength sports.
Eg.
John Broz
T NATION | Max Out on Squats Every Day
I wish I could link you to the post he had in his Q&A section, but it appears to be deleted now.
Jamie Lewis - Chaos and Pain
ChAoS & PAIN: The B in Beginner Doesn't Stand For "Bitch"
( I believe he has a post specifically on overtraining, I don't remember which one, however)
__________________
Log:http://muscleandbrawn.com/forums/pri...er-ardens.html
Lifting Blog:http://onpump.blogspot.com/
"Being successful and being 'normal' have absolutely nothing in common... successful people don't 'fit in'."
"Choose to not to be a product of your environment, but rather a product of your desires."Kroc
Comp Lifts(lb/kg): Squat: 385/175 Bench: 231/105 Deadlift: 463/210 Best Lifts: Squat: 395/180 Bench: 250/113 Deadlift: 475/215
ONpump17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2012, 12:25 PM   #5
BigJosh
Senior Member
Max Brawn
Points: 11,344, Level: 70 Points: 11,344, Level: 70 Points: 11,344, Level: 70
Activity: 17% Activity: 17% Activity: 17%
 
BigJosh's Avatar
 
Monster Memory Champion! Solitaire Golf SLingo Champion! Wheel Of Fortune Champion! Portal Champion! SpongeBob's Pizza Toss Champion! Bumper Cards Champion! ATV Winter Challenge Champion! NBA Spirit Champion! Torino 2006 Curling Champion! Ultimate Football Champion!
Tournaments Won: 3

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Central California
Posts: 4,000
Training Exp: 7-8 years
Training Type: Fullbody
Fav Exercise: Bench Press and Curls Bro
Fav Supp: Opti-Men Multi Vit
Reputation: 232066
BigJosh is a master memberBigJosh is a master memberBigJosh is a master memberBigJosh is a master memberBigJosh is a master memberBigJosh is a master memberBigJosh is a master memberBigJosh is a master memberBigJosh is a master memberBigJosh is a master memberBigJosh is a master member
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Off Road View Post
The biggies are; A consistent loss in strength, a constant feeling of fatigue, a loss of appetite, irregular sleep patterns, and prolonged sickness.

This is not to be confused with a general feeling of fatigue, a temporary loss in strength, etc...Which are pretty common for people that train hard.

General fatigue symptoms come on pretty quickly and pass pretty quickly, but true over training takes a long time to reach and often even longer to get over.
I think this pretty much covers it. The only thing I would add to the list is hyper tension. When I need some time off it's always a big symptom for me.
__________________
Zdravko Veselin Gaeta

I am not a powerlifter nor am I a bodybuilder. I just want to be big and strong.
Quote:
[Today 05:50 PM] BendtheBar: Write that quote down
[Today 05:50 PM] BendtheBar: If I am going to be a bro, I am going to be the best
Make gains, not excuses.
BigJosh is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2012, 01:47 PM   #6
Max
Senior Member
Brawn
Points: 336, Level: 6 Points: 336, Level: 6 Points: 336, Level: 6
Activity: 1% Activity: 1% Activity: 1%
 
Max's Avatar
 

Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 126
Reputation: 2760
Max has made some very good postsMax has made some very good postsMax has made some very good postsMax has made some very good postsMax has made some very good postsMax has made some very good postsMax has made some very good postsMax has made some very good postsMax has made some very good postsMax has made some very good postsMax has made some very good posts
Default

Irritability might be one also.
Max is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2012, 01:54 PM   #7
bamazav
Bigger, Stronger, BAMA!
Max Brawn
Points: 26,424, Level: 97 Points: 26,424, Level: 97 Points: 26,424, Level: 97
Activity: 7% Activity: 7% Activity: 7%
 
bamazav's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
Posts: 4,897
Training Exp: 5
Training Type: ARGH!!!
Fav Exercise: Squats
Fav Supp: Deadlifts
Reputation: 222686
bamazav is a master memberbamazav is a master memberbamazav is a master memberbamazav is a master memberbamazav is a master memberbamazav is a master memberbamazav is a master memberbamazav is a master memberbamazav is a master memberbamazav is a master memberbamazav is a master member
Default

If you are just starting and worried about over training, give up and go home. IMHO, the average gym goer never has to worry about this issue as the average gym goer has 3 -4 full days of rest a week, takes between 3 and 5 minutes between sets and only does a movement until it hurts or burns. 98% of those going to the gym today wouldn't know over training if it came up and smacked them in the face. We confuse stress, tiredness ( late nights and early mornings), laziness and the results of bad nutrition with over training. OR is spot on with the symptoms, but most of us will never train hard enough or long enough to truly experience over training. Get in the gym, train hard, eat right get enough sleep, if you are feeling tired, rest! The chances are, you are not over training.
__________________
David, Husband, Father, Pastor
(Yasen Miroslav Zavadil)

2014 100%RAW American Challenge, May 31, 2014:
Squat 292
Bench 176
Deadlift 375 PR
Total - 843 at 50 yrs 199.6 lbs

Shooting for a 900+ total for next meet. (see quote below)

"If there is nothing you can improve on, your standards are too low!" - BAMA Strength Coach Scott Cochran

1Co 9:27 But I discipline my body and keep it under control, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified
bamazav is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2012, 04:33 PM   #8
Pull14
Senior Member
Max Brawn
Points: 3,581, Level: 37 Points: 3,581, Level: 37 Points: 3,581, Level: 37
Activity: 4% Activity: 4% Activity: 4%
 
Pull14's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: New Jersey, US
Posts: 1,117
Training Type: Fullbody
Reputation: 32208
Pull14 is a lifting machinePull14 is a lifting machinePull14 is a lifting machinePull14 is a lifting machinePull14 is a lifting machinePull14 is a lifting machinePull14 is a lifting machinePull14 is a lifting machinePull14 is a lifting machinePull14 is a lifting machinePull14 is a lifting machine
Default

OR hit the nail on the head.

I've been training for awhile now with a method similiar to Broz and Jamie Lewis of C&P (linked above) so my 2 cents... Over training is not something to be worried about. You'll have to work really, really hard to over train and your more likely to completely give up on training long before you reach the point of over training. I'd personally just remove the dang word from your vocabulary.

The thing that should be a concern is recovery: Make sure your getting plenty of food and sleep. A lot of fatigued can easily be reduced simply by getting to bed on time and improving your quality of sleep (avoid many nights of drinking!). Past that, start off slow in your training and just build up volume/intensity over a a decent period of time so that you don't reach to far past your ability to recover. When your beat up, take a week off and do easy stuff in the gym so that the following week you can get back on track (deload).
Pull14 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2012, 04:37 PM   #9
MVP
Liftin' heavy
Uber Brawn
Points: 1,278, Level: 19 Points: 1,278, Level: 19 Points: 1,278, Level: 19
Activity: 61% Activity: 61% Activity: 61%
 
MVP's Avatar
 

Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: WV
Posts: 366
Training Exp: +8 years
Training Type: Fullbody
Fav Exercise: Bench Press
Fav Supp: Syntha 6
Reputation: 13484
MVP is a dedicated contributorMVP is a dedicated contributorMVP is a dedicated contributorMVP is a dedicated contributorMVP is a dedicated contributorMVP is a dedicated contributorMVP is a dedicated contributorMVP is a dedicated contributorMVP is a dedicated contributorMVP is a dedicated contributorMVP is a dedicated contributor
Default

This is from Christian Thibaudeau.

Quote:
If you ask me, "overtraining" is the most abused and misunderstood concept in the entire strength training community! Perform more than twelve sets for a muscle during a workout and you'll undoubtedly be accused of overtraining. Train a muscle group more often than two times per week? Overtraining! Relying on set extending methods such as drop sets, pre or post-fatigue, or rest-pause? What are you doing? Don't you know that's overtraining and you'll shrink faster than your masculine pride on a snowy Canadian winter night?!

Yes, overtraining can eventually become a problem when it comes to your training performance, injury risks, and growth. However, it's far from being as common as most people would have you believe.

The problem stems from the term itself, which is composed of "over" and "training." Because of that term, individuals are quick to equate it to "training too much." So every time someone thinks that a routine has too much volume, frequency, or advanced methods, they're quick to pull the "overtraining" trigger. When someone is tired and has a few bad workouts he'll also automatically assume that he's "overtraining." In both cases this shows a misunderstanding of what overtraining really is.

Overtraining is a physiological state caused by an excess accumulation of physiological, psychological, emotional, environmental, and chemical stress that leads to a sustained decrease in physical and mental performance, and that requires a relatively long recovery period. There are four important elements in that scientific definition:

"Physiological state:" Overtraining isn't an action (i.e. training too much) but a state in which your body can be put through. In that regard, it's similar to a burnout, a medical depression, or an illness.

"Caused by an excess accumulation of physiological, psychological, emotional, environmental, and chemical stress:" Stress has both a localized and a systemic effect. Every type of stress has a systemic impact on the body; this impact isn't limited to the structures involved directly in the "stressful event." This systemic impact is caused by the release of stress hormones (glucocorticoids like cortisol for example) and an overexertion of the adrenal glands.

So every single type of stressor out there can contribute to the onset of an overtraining state. Job troubles, tension in a relationship, death in the family, pollutants and chemicals in the air we breathe, the food we eat or the water we drink, etc. can all contribute to overtraining. Training too much is obviously another stress factor that can facilitate the onset of the overtraining state, but it's far from being the sole murder suspect.

"Leads to a sustained decrease in physical and mental performance:" The key term here is sustained. Some people will have a few sub par workouts and will automatically assume they're overtraining. Not the case. It could simply be acute or accumulated fatigue due to poor recovery management or a deficient dietary approach.

A real overtraining state/syndrome takes months of excessive stress to build up. And when someone reaches that state, it'll take several weeks (even several months) of rest and recovery measures to get back to a "normal" physiological state. If a few days of rest or active rest can get your performance back up to par, you weren't overtraining. You probably suffered from some fatigue accumulation, that's all.

Worst case scenario, you might enter an overreaching state (a transient form of overtraining). Reaching that point will normally take 10-14 days of rest and active rest to get back up to normal. Overreaching can actually be used as a training tool since the body normally surcompensates (with rest) following overreaching. Elite athletes often include periods of drastic training stress increases followed by a 10-14 day taper to reach a peak performance level on a certain date.

"That requires a relatively long recovery period:" As we already mentioned, reaching a true overtraining state takes a long period of excessive stress and requires a long period of recovery. The following graphic illustrates the various steps toward the onset of an overtraining state as well as the recovery period needed to get out of these different levels.


The spectrum goes from acute fatigue, which is the normal fatigue caused by a very intense/demanding workout, right up to a true overtraining state. In all my life, I've seen two cases of real overtraining. In both cases this happened to two high level athletes right after the Olympic Games (accumulation of the super intense training, the stress of qualifying for the Olympics, and the stress of the Olympics themselves).

Understand that most international level athletes will train close to 30-40 hours per week. Obviously not all of that is spent in the gym; they also have their sport practice, speed and agility work, conditioning work, etc., but these still represent a physiological stress. Yet rarely will these athletes reach a true overtraining state.

How could training for a total of five or six hours per week cause overtraining? Fatigue, yes, mostly due to improper recovery management, a very low level of general physical preparation (conditioning level), or a mediocre work capacity.

To paraphrase Louie Simmons, North American athletes are out of shape. Being out of shape (low level of general preparedness or conditioning) means you can't recover well from a high volume of work. But the more work you can perform, without going beyond your capacity to recover, the more you'll progress. So in that regard, poor work capacity can be the real problem behind lack of gains from a program.

By continually avoiding performing a high level of physical work, you'll never increase your work capacity and will suffer from accumulated fatigue as soon as you increase your training stress ever so slightly. Obviously, the solution isn't to jump into mega-volume training, but to gradually include more GPP work as well as periods of increased training stress that will increase in duration and frequency over time.

Ask any of my clients �?? they must all go through four-week phases of very high volume work interlaced between phases of "normal" volume training (or even phases of low volume). And as they progress through the system, the high volume phases will become more frequent (as their work capacity improves) or last longer.
__________________
Personal Trainer- ACE, NASM AFPA; Nutrition Consultant- AFPA

"I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me." - Philippians 4:13"
MVP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2012, 04:50 PM   #10
BigJosh
Senior Member
Max Brawn
Points: 11,344, Level: 70 Points: 11,344, Level: 70 Points: 11,344, Level: 70
Activity: 17% Activity: 17% Activity: 17%
 
BigJosh's Avatar
 
Monster Memory Champion! Solitaire Golf SLingo Champion! Wheel Of Fortune Champion! Portal Champion! SpongeBob's Pizza Toss Champion! Bumper Cards Champion! ATV Winter Challenge Champion! NBA Spirit Champion! Torino 2006 Curling Champion! Ultimate Football Champion!
Tournaments Won: 3

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Central California
Posts: 4,000
Training Exp: 7-8 years
Training Type: Fullbody
Fav Exercise: Bench Press and Curls Bro
Fav Supp: Opti-Men Multi Vit
Reputation: 232066
BigJosh is a master memberBigJosh is a master memberBigJosh is a master memberBigJosh is a master memberBigJosh is a master memberBigJosh is a master memberBigJosh is a master memberBigJosh is a master memberBigJosh is a master memberBigJosh is a master memberBigJosh is a master member
Default

I have to admit, I'm a little disappointed in the way this OP is getting lectured with hard line opinions regarding overtraining.
While I understand there is debate over what overtraining is and how and when it is achieved and the general semantics of the matter, but the poster was simply asking what the symptoms are.
End of story. Not asking if his "routine was overtraining" or is he overtraining or anything of that matter.
Yet it kind of seems like he is being lectured about how he doesn't need to worry about it because he likely isn't overtraining. That seems a little hardlined and condescending to me.
Overtraining or over reaching or under recovering (what ever you care to call it) does exist and there are symptoms. Why the need to rant at this guy?

That's just my observation and opinion. I'm not trying to disrespect anyone. But I think MaB is better than this. Maybe I'm reading to much into this and I apologize if I am.
__________________
Zdravko Veselin Gaeta

I am not a powerlifter nor am I a bodybuilder. I just want to be big and strong.
Quote:
[Today 05:50 PM] BendtheBar: Write that quote down
[Today 05:50 PM] BendtheBar: If I am going to be a bro, I am going to be the best
Make gains, not excuses.
BigJosh is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
overtraining, symptoms


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Overtraining E_Barnes Muscle Building and Bodybuilding 6 06-18-2012 07:05 PM
Overtraining? CNS? miked96 Powerlifting & Strength Training 45 03-02-2012 10:54 AM
You are overtraining... dmaipa General Board 13 11-13-2010 09:54 AM
Am i overtraining? knudci Muscle Building and Bodybuilding 15 03-09-2010 04:34 PM
Overtraining 101 Iron Gladiator General Board 0 12-19-2009 08:07 AM

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:01 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.