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Old 02-06-2012, 12:44 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by abett07 View Post
I dont get bored , its more that I look in the mirror and see something I dont like and think a new workout can fix this.
For example my upper back is a bit behind the rest of my body so I thought my current workout (reeves routine ) dosent have enough upper back work, so I considerd going to a routine that has about twice as much upper back work .

This was why I made this thread because I was thinking about going to my 4th workout in 6 months .I will stay on the reeves workout and if I have to I will just put some more upper back work into that.
I would be patient. Reeves is a great routine. You might could add some deads once a week, but I would be careful adding too much. Done right, your entire body should be hit quite well.
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Old 02-06-2012, 01:33 PM   #12
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Why don't you tell us Abett, most of your posts here have been asking advice on various and different training protocols with no sign that you are sticking to any of it.

So how has this worked out for you?
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Old 02-06-2012, 02:17 PM   #13
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I spent from 1995-2004 logging and finding out what worked for me.

Now I take the knowledge of the best styles and have tweaked it for me personally and work around them only to keep things fresh and not boring but yet consistent. I have no Book or Big name style. I have my own now.

As you see, 9 years of logging of 6-9 month style trials and consistency first.
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Old 02-06-2012, 03:54 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Fazc View Post
Why don't you tell us Abett, most of your posts here have been asking advice on various and different training protocols with no sign that you are sticking to any of it.

So how has this worked out for you?
The number of posts that I have made about different training methods is more of a reflection of my desire to learn than of a lack of consistency as some questions I have asked have been simply out of curiosity.

Progress over the last 6 months on reflection has been good, I am probably guilty of over thinking and being a bit unrealistic about what can be achieved over a short amount of time.
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Old 02-18-2012, 09:22 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by BendtheBar View Post
To be honest, I didn't change workouts for over 20 years.

My advice for younger lifters reading this is to stop worrying about specific routines and start thinking about improving lifts. Work hard, get stronger and evolve your training based on how things are going.

Most workouts are the same lifts in different packages.

You need to allow your body to adapt to the conditioning demands of a workout so you can start to focus on improving performance (strength progression). If someone keeps changing routines a lot of the adaptation they are experiencing is to the specific conditioning demands of that program, and do not necessarily translate into strength and muscle gains.

It is only once your body has adapted to a program that you can start to improve performance.

Rest pause training for example. I decided to experiment with it in 2008. For the first 4 weeks my body was adapting to the specific demands of the program and my strength gains were in a hover pattern. Once my body adapted to the pace of the program, and gained conditioning, my strength gains started to skyrocket.

This is the same for any athletic pursuit. If you take up running it will take you 4 to 6 weeks perhaps before you can run a mile without feeling like a physical wreck. Once you have built up some basic ability, then you can focus on improving performance.

This performance improvement might take 6 months, a year or 18 months. If you keep changing up how you train your running during this time you might be spending too much time, energy and recovery ability adjusting to new demands. Instead, you should be focused on improving your performance, making minor tweaks to your existing training protocol.

Lifting...same thing. Spend too much time playing around and adapting to new programming demands and you're taking time away from improving your performance.

The best thing a starting lifter can do is to stop thinking in terms of programs and workouts as t-shirts that they can try on. Instead, look at the commonalities, find a rep scheme and progression scheme that appeals to them, and run with it, making changes along the way.

When people jump into the Reeve's fullbody we advice them to start very slow because the conditioning demands and extremely unique when compared to a split. It is only after 4-6 weeks, once you have adapted to the conditioning demands of the program, that you can get down to business. The important business.

Lifting has become so over-marketed that every program has a slick name, and are positioned to look unique so they are appealing. Ignore all this and look for the commonalities.
Steve-do you think a NEW stimulus is a MORE DEMANDING stimulus?
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Old 02-18-2012, 10:01 AM   #16
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Steve-do you think a NEW stimulus is a MORE DEMANDING stimulus?
All new stimulus are demanding in unique ways. "More" demanding is relative to the situation. We can't remove actions from their context.

If we use "more demanding" to mean the body will respond and add strength and muscle, then yes, these stimulus do exist. But they have to be viewed in context.

Adding 90% work was "more demanding" for me and resulted in change. This is not the best stimulus for someone who is still relatively weak though. They need consistent, step after step progression. No stimulus is greater than that in the long run.

Quite frankly I don't personally like to view training through the lens of stimulus. Training moves from fairly straight forward as the gains come consistently to more and more complex as the years pass.

Achieving that last 10-20% of muscle and strength isn't as simple as adding new stimulus. There are so many other factors involved...training balance, training wisely, listening to your body, periodization to prevent injury, etc.

A lot of lifters like to:

1) Believe they are in a plateau when they are still making gains.
2) Believe that fancy ninja moves that look cool on paper are more effective in the long run than just charging straight up the hill.

When it comes to muscle building gains slow down. That's reality. Does stimulus re-ignite this? Let me put it this way: I have personally interviewed and documented the training of perhaps 150 top natural bodybuilders.

At some point they all scratch their heads and try different stimulus to reignite gains. There is no re-ignition in the long run. They simply do NOT see 5 pound muscle gain bursts after 5 years of training unless they made very sub-par gains before that point.

Certainly struggling to add a pound or two of muscle each year might require new approaches/stimulus. But before this point it's all about progression no matter what style you use.

The successful people I know made the bulk of their gains when they put their head down and just went forward. They got in a groove and hammered it out for 2-3 years. There wasn't a lot of swapping and shocking involved. They just got tunnel vision and marched forward.

Most people over-think training before they have to. The only stimulus most need over time is another 5 pounds. They generally over-think it because they have unrealistic expectations and expect to add muscle size bringing their bench up to 185 or squat to 225. This doesn't yield much, so the shocking and swapping cycle begins.

If you want my uncensored, NOT long-winded opinion, it's this:

Nothing else matters until you bring your strength up substantially relative to where you started.

Until then swapping and flipping and flopping and all that other stuff is nonsense to me. I probably sound very dogmatic, but I have just never seen a weak bodybuilder.

If someone wants to use giant sets and rest-pause and whatever, have at it. ENJOY training. This isn't life or death. Just get STRONG doing so, and don't feel you have to change ever 8 weeks or you will die. THIS BELIEF IS NONSENSE.

/End shouting.
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Old 02-18-2012, 10:19 AM   #17
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One of the things I love about PRRS by Eric Broser is the fact that on Power wks, I get to feel like the old power lifter I used to be, although the poundage are some what different from the old days, but the mental aspect of it makes me feel good. I have logged my routines for the last 20 years...EEK!!! I just through out 10 note books full of work.
PRRS and FD/FS keeps the muscle gains coming! FD/FS is insane btw!!!
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Old 02-19-2012, 12:09 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BendtheBar View Post
All new stimulus are demanding in unique ways. "More" demanding is relative to the situation. We can't remove actions from their context.

If we use "more demanding" to mean the body will respond and add strength and muscle, then yes, these stimulus do exist. But they have to be viewed in context.

Adding 90% work was "more demanding" for me and resulted in change. This is not the best stimulus for someone who is still relatively weak though. They need consistent, step after step progression. No stimulus is greater than that in the long run.

Quite frankly I don't personally like to view training through the lens of stimulus. Training moves from fairly straight forward as the gains come consistently to more and more complex as the years pass.

Achieving that last 10-20% of muscle and strength isn't as simple as adding new stimulus. There are so many other factors involved...training balance, training wisely, listening to your body, periodization to prevent injury, etc.

A lot of lifters like to:

1) Believe they are in a plateau when they are still making gains.
2) Believe that fancy ninja moves that look cool on paper are more effective in the long run than just charging straight up the hill.

When it comes to muscle building gains slow down. That's reality. Does stimulus re-ignite this? Let me put it this way: I have personally interviewed and documented the training of perhaps 150 top natural bodybuilders.

At some point they all scratch their heads and try different stimulus to reignite gains. There is no re-ignition in the long run. They simply do NOT see 5 pound muscle gain bursts after 5 years of training unless they made very sub-par gains before that point.

Certainly struggling to add a pound or two of muscle each year might require new approaches/stimulus. But before this point it's all about progression no matter what style you use.

The successful people I know made the bulk of their gains when they put their head down and just went forward. They got in a groove and hammered it out for 2-3 years. There wasn't a lot of swapping and shocking involved. They just got tunnel vision and marched forward.

Most people over-think training before they have to. The only stimulus most need over time is another 5 pounds. They generally over-think it because they have unrealistic expectations and expect to add muscle size bringing their bench up to 185 or squat to 225. This doesn't yield much, so the shocking and swapping cycle begins.

If you want my uncensored, NOT long-winded opinion, it's this:

Nothing else matters until you bring your strength up substantially relative to where you started.

Until then swapping and flipping and flopping and all that other stuff is nonsense to me. I probably sound very dogmatic, but I have just never seen a weak bodybuilder.

If someone wants to use giant sets and rest-pause and whatever, have at it. ENJOY training. This isn't life or death. Just get STRONG doing so, and don't feel you have to change ever 8 weeks or you will die. THIS BELIEF IS NONSENSE.

/End shouting.
Hm ok, lets say I am on a HLM schedule.
I have my basic exercises on H day. The exercises on L/M day are the same, but different to the heavy day. (like barbell benching on H day and dumbbell benching on L/M day)
So now I stall after 5 weeks.
I deload for 2 weeks,but still stall. (diet is in check)

"As a result of accommodation and to activate new steps in adaption the programm must be changed in one or both two ways: Increase the load or chaniging the exercise complex. There are limits to increase the training load (staleness,time constrains) so changing exercises is preferable (Zatsiorsky & Kraemer,2006).

So a possibility would be to remain the parameters in my HLM schedule but flip the exercises between each other. So the LM exercises move to H day and the other way around.

What would you do steve?
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Old 02-20-2012, 09:04 AM   #19
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my trainer changes my routines weekly. its not about the routine as much as your effort doing whatever lift you are doing.
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Old 02-20-2012, 09:52 AM   #20
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my trainer changes my routines weekly. its not about the routine as much as your effort doing whatever lift you are doing.
If it works for you then do it-but I would suggest that a weekly change (it depends how big the change is,or what kind of change) could be too much.

Adaption is not a bad thing-its a good one. Its that what we want.
If the body is always stressed with a different stimulus to what should it adapt to? There is no consistency. How you measure progress then?

I made this experience with the HLM template. What I did was to train for example shoulders light and chest heavy. Next session Shoulders heavy and chest light and so on.
I stalled from the beginning. I only progress if all exercises are done heavy/medium or light on one specific day.
Mixing them up seems to confuse my CNS to which direction my body should adapt to.
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