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-   -   Are upper lower splits an effective way to train? (http://www.muscleandbrawn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8424)

abett07 01-01-2012 02:55 AM

Are upper lower splits an effective way to train?
 
When I first started training I was quick to dismess this training method, I can now see some benefits to this approach however I would still go with FB or splits

2 questions about upper lower splits

1.Do you really need 2 days for your lower half ? the only way that i can think of working your legs for 2 days is to include lots of isolations work

2.what about the deadlift ? you either have to leave it out or overtrain your legs or back

Pull14 01-01-2012 04:31 AM

Upper/Lower splits are what you get with training systems similar to the conjugate method/westside. Hard to argue with the effectiveness of those. If I were you, I'd try to get away from thinking in terms of body parts as from a planning aspect, it just complicates things. Deadlifts work upper, mid, lower back, but also glutes, hamstrings, abs, to a smaller extend, quads. Front squats rely heavily on quads, glutes, lower, mid, and upper back strength. As you can see a ton of overlap and thats just from two lifts... one considered a "back" lift and the other a "leg" lift.

1) Thinking in terms of upper/lower... deadlifts and squat work on the lower, everything upper body... on the upper body day. For the lower specifically, you can squat and dead on both days or you can squat on one, deadlift on the other. Many people on this forum are squatting 3 times a week and on top of some type of pull from the floor. Past this forum, many people squat 4,5,6 times a week... Its possible to do it more than once.

2) This was just answered, but treat the deadlift like a lower body lift. Back work such as rows and chins as upper body stuff.

abett07 01-01-2012 05:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pull14 (Post 202896)
Upper/Lower splits are what you get with training systems similar to the conjugate method/westside. Hard to argue with the effectiveness of those. If I were you, I'd try to get away from thinking in terms of body parts as from a planning aspect, it just complicates things. Deadlifts work upper, mid, lower back, but also glutes, hamstrings, abs, to a smaller extend, quads. Front squats rely heavily on quads, glutes, lower, mid, and upper back strength. As you can see a ton of overlap and thats just from two lifts... one considered a "back" lift and the other a "leg" lift.

1) Thinking in terms of upper/lower... deadlifts and squat work on the lower, everything upper body... on the upper body day. For the lower specifically, you can squat and dead on both days or you can squat on one, deadlift on the other. Many people on this forum are squatting 3 times a week and on top of some type of pull from the floor. Past this forum, many people squat 4,5,6 times a week... Its possible to do it more than once.

2) This was just answered, but treat the deadlift like a lower body lift. Back work such as rows and chins as upper body stuff.

so would it be ok to work the back with rows or chins on the upper body day and than the next day perform deadlifts as alower body left ? Its the recovery time that looks like a problem to me when you include the deadlift

bamazav 01-01-2012 08:12 AM

Recovery is different for each of us. There are so many variables. If you are younger, 20 something, an upper/lower split should be no problem, barring some sort of injury you have not shared. IMHO, recovery time and over training are two of the most over thought issues of training. I am 48 and either train fullbody or upper lower split. I rarely train legs less than two days and the only time I have noticed recovery issues were when training with high volume. Even then, it was also as much about diet as it was the training, I was on a calorie deficit.

You can start with an easy 3 day split over two weeks Lower/Upper/Lower then Upper/lower/Upper. Over a two week period you will have trained every part three times, with a day or more in between each session. Recovery should not be an issue if you are eating and sleeping right.

Soldier 01-01-2012 10:39 AM

I LOVE upper/lower splits. I've had my best results from them. As for overtraining, I've been able to do 2 lower body days a week while also doing running and sprinting sessions throughout the week, while still progressing on my maximal lower body strength.

When I plan my training I give one lower body day to squats, and one to dead lifts. I work up to heavy singles, doubles, or triples in whichever lift I'm focussing on that day, then do some other lifts to finish myself off. My favorites are high rep leg presses, SLDL's, leg curls and calf presses.

I also like to use partial versions of squats and DL's, to keep things interesting and let me move some serious weights.

On my upper body days I like to superset pushing and pulling movements, but I still keep things heavy. I choose my first movement based on whatever I need to improve the most. If it's shoulders, I'll start with on overhead press and superset with a pull up or a row variation. If I need to focus on chest, I'll start with a bench press variation.

Don't worry about overtraining your back. It's practically impossible, and most people drastically undertrain everything on the back of their bodies.

Off Road 01-01-2012 11:18 AM

The upper back can be trained frequently, the lower back is sometimes a different story.

Pull14 01-01-2012 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abett07 (Post 202898)
so would it be ok to work the back with rows or chins on the upper body day and than the next day perform deadlifts as alower body left ? Its the recovery time that looks like a problem to me when you include the deadlift

Yes on the back work... rows, chins, any type of upper body pull. To get an idea of an upper lower split, take a look at some of Jim Wendler's 5/3/1 templates for 4x a week training and just take a look at the combination of lifts. Might help visualize a little.

As for recovery with back and deads... Shouldn't be an issue. Different movements are being stresses and past that, the upper and mid back handle volume very well.

BendtheBar 01-01-2012 02:54 PM

I like upper/lower splits and think they can be a good choice depending on experience, etc.

as far as back, If I was personally structuring one I would probably do a deadlift and pullup day and perhaps a row and clean day. Cleans could be dropped and replaced, but I like the idea of at least one Olympic lift.

ruelisla 08-19-2013 10:59 AM

If you are training for strentgh and size, its a good idea to have a 2 day split workout because it helps you focus on your lifts in doing your bench and squats/deadlift.

i usually do bench and other presses on my upper body workout and i do squat and deadlift on my lower body workout.

If I do heavy squat i do ligt deadlift 1x25.

in my heavy deadlift day i do light squat 1x25 and i do my biceps on my pulling workout day.


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