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Muscle Building and Bodybuilding Topics related to muscle building, bodybuilding, including training and fullbody workouts. If you are looking for great advice on gaining muscle this forum is for you.

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Old 10-05-2011, 09:04 AM   #1
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Default Ideas on programming

cheers,

i am still on my course with HLM but i need some good ideas regarding further programming.
i already discussed some parts of it with steve here some months ago.

my typical template is
H 3x3-5 3 min rest
M 3x8-10 2 min rest
L 2x15 1 min rest.

all sets across and whole body. 186cm. 88kg. 19%BF

2200 kcal on off days. 2700 on training days. 30 years old.

I workout 2 x the week the exercises are also programmed in a HLM manner (E.G.chest: H:dips /L:dumbbel benching flat/M: decline barbell bench)


I did the one above and progressed good on the M and L day.Average gain of 10 pounds after 5 weeks. The H day was difficult on progressing.
I deloaded after 5 weeks:I cut back to one set and 80% of the weight used on all days and build to 100% up over 3 rotations.

Now i am trying for one top set on the H L and M days.(ramped)

The questions-which could be discussed on HLM in genereal:


- Perhaps the H day is too seldom or heavy to let a good progression occur. (remember i work out 2x the week so a full HLM rotation lasts bout 10 days).
An option would be to shoot for a heavy set of 5-8 to avoid CNS burnout.

-Also when deloading/getting back to the old weights i need about 5 weeks because my H/L/M rotation is spread out over 10 days- thats damn long

-Is it neccessary to switch to a ramped set approach after doin sets across? (i did it to bring down the volume) Or would it be enough to switch out the exercises after stalling, deload and repeat the parameters?

Another thought of mine would be to combine one of the days with each other. Like H and L day. (like 3x3 bench followed by 2 higher rep sets)or H and M day (3x5 bench and 3x10 accessory dumbbel benching)

So my main problem is HOW the cycles NEED to differ between each other(paramters, exercises), combining them with a smart deload and if a combination of some days would better fit in my schedule.

How do you do it?

FloW

Last edited by flow; 10-05-2011 at 09:09 AM.
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Old 10-05-2011, 09:07 AM   #2
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Just curious... Are you trying to gain, lose or maintain?
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Old 10-05-2011, 09:15 AM   #3
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well i ended some years ago with 98.5 kg and 23%BF.

I needed to loose my belly and ended on 83kg and 16%BF. I lost muscle and fat-the caloric minus was just too big.

Now i am at 88kg and 19% BF (30 years old BTW)with the mentioned caloric intake.

Well i want to get bigger again but i keep track on my BF% to not get THAT fat again. So the gains are for sure more slow.

I look how far this kcal intake takes me in regards of mass/strength and BF% and adjust from there. (cutting or not)
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Old 10-05-2011, 09:23 AM   #4
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All I want to really say is to not sell yourself short on PWO days by reducing your food intake. Protein synthesis peaks around 24-48 hours PWO. Your body needs that fuel the following day, more so than ever.

Just something to consider.
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Old 10-05-2011, 09:33 AM   #5
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Hitting a heavy percentage for low reps with the same lifts week after week will definitely lead to stalls. You could benefit from planned progression, like using 5/3/1 for your heavy days. Keep ahead of the stalls.
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Old 10-05-2011, 03:58 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow View Post
All I want to really say is to not sell yourself short on PWO days by reducing your food intake. Protein synthesis peaks around 24-48 hours PWO. Your body needs that fuel the following day, more so than ever.

Just something to consider.
true.

what you might consider? A plus of 300?

I want to eliminate unnecessary fat gain-but i know that the same way i set myself short of gains.
nevertheless for this purpose the weekend (SA/SU) is off diet. My last session is on friday. So i can feed up during the week end and return rested on monday.
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Old 10-05-2011, 04:02 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Off Road View Post
Hitting a heavy percentage for low reps with the same lifts week after week will definitely lead to stalls. You could benefit from planned progression, like using 5/3/1 for your heavy days. Keep ahead of the stalls.
well good point thank you.

i thought also of rotating the exercises like Defranco does it in WSB.

How would you design a 5/3/1 HLM template?
So the H day would be 5/3/1 this will take care of the progression on this day.
How does the other days (L,M) would fit in? How should i periodize them?
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Old 10-05-2011, 04:16 PM   #8
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From Wendler, thought it might give you something to think about when setting up a HML 5/3/1...

This is obviously inspired by some of Bill Starr’s (and thus Mark Rippetoe) training; I give them thanks for the inspiration. As you can see, you have a press, squat and a pull each day. But each day has a “heavy” emphasis. And you always squat first. Because squatting is better than anything else.

Monday

• Squat – 3 sets of 5-10 reps (using deload percentages)

• Deadlift – 5/3/1 sets and reps

• DB Bench – 3 sets of 8-20 reps

Wednesday

• Squat – 3 sets of 5-10 reps (using deload percentages)

• Bench Press – 5/3/1 sets and reps

• DB Row – 3 sets or do Kroc Rows

Friday

• Squat – 5/3/1 sets and reps

• Press – 5/3/1 sets and reps (or do another pressing assistance exercise in its place)

• Chins or T-Bar Rows – 3-5 sets of whatever reps you want, usually 5-30 reps.

Notes:

• Start with sets of 5 on the “light” squat days. You can work your way up to sets of 10 but you don’t have to.

• You can structure the training however you see fit but this template is probably the best I’ve trained with.

• I’ve been doing this since type of split since my accident – my training log hasn’t been telling the whole truth as I didn’t want to answer questions about the training until I knew the answer.

• This works well and is fun. I take some long breaks between the exercises because I use the weight room to get stronger not to “tone”.

• I don’t compromise on my training or on my workouts – if you want to change something, do so and see if it works. I can’t endorse anything I don’t do personally.

• Eat. Sleep. Mate. Defend.

-Jim Wendler
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Old 10-05-2011, 10:28 PM   #9
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I don't believe the HLM format you outlined will benefit someone lifting only 2 times a week. Best bet is to go with something similar to what Off Road posted above (Jim's full body 5/3/1) or something similar to Wendler's 5/3/1 2x Week template:

Day 1 - Squat 5/3/1, Bench 5/3/1, and some assistance work
Day 2 - Deadlift 5/3/1, Press 5/3/1, and some assistance work.

Don't have to use 5/3/1 but stick with the basic template/format.
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Old 10-05-2011, 10:50 PM   #10
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Quote:
I did the one above and progressed good on the M and L day.Average gain of 10 pounds after 5 weeks. The H day was difficult on progressing.
Where are your lifts at currently?

Sometimes programming can get a little too overbaked or overdone before linear progression has worked it's course.

Edit: This was in reference to a 2 day per week program, which can be easily programmed ala John Christy or like the template that mimic's the John Christy method without need of HLM.
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