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Muscle Building and Bodybuilding Topics related to muscle building, bodybuilding, including training and fullbody workouts. If you are looking for great advice on gaining muscle this forum is for you.

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Old 10-07-2011, 12:18 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Off Road View Post
Sure, no problem. This is a topic that I find interesting.

I've heard it said, and I tend to agree with it, that genetic potential for size gains will partition out to ~75% dry muscle (Myofibrillar) and ~25% energy storage (Sarcoplasmic). So my question is; If these numbers are close to accurate, what percentage of your training should be devoted to each type of hypertrophy?

Training for energy storage (Sarcoplasmic) only accounts for ~25% of your genetic potential, but most bodybuilders put a larger emphasis on high rep "bodybuilder" type training. Does this type of training demand that kind of emphasis?

Training for dry muscle (Myofibrillar) accounts for a much larger percent of your genetic potential, yet bodybuilders seem to do far less of this low rep type training. Is this type of training more economical and therefore requires less overall attention in your routine?
In my experience: (I'm not always right)
Competitive BBer are all about size, separation and symmetry. Size don't always reflect power. ( How many know a twig that is much stronger than he looks).

Higher reps over 7-8 threw 15 has some documentation it cause more fiber recruitment for a great % of people. Thus build size in recovery providing both lifts and nutrition are a true effort.

Lower reps 5 or less have some documentation in a great % of people to build power and raise the need for energy stores. Forcing the fibers you have to produce more and heavy work. ( example would be a farm boy, not necessarily cuts or separation but build like a brick crap house (solid) or a twig that can blow you mind lift a truck to get it unstuck )

I would figure lift and pick rep range by your goals. Lift a ton or have size and separation. Again this would be based also on trial and error. What does your body react to. Log and track I think is a good way to find out. But thats my opinion and I'm not certified in anything.
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Old 10-07-2011, 01:01 PM   #12
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sorry to go off-topic, but great new avi Rich.
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Old 10-07-2011, 01:11 PM   #13
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sorry to go off-topic, but great new avi Rich, how did you go about building that physique?
There, fixed it for you, back on topic.
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Old 10-07-2011, 01:29 PM   #14
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I do the same thing when I get some questions asked of me. We can't know everything and I see it as a great way to expand everybody's knowledge. Just like the question I posed, it's something that I keep trying to wrap my head around and it just keeps opening up more questions rather than giving answers. But by discussing it we all gain knowledge, and that's a good thing.
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Old 10-07-2011, 01:30 PM   #15
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sorry to go off-topic, but great new avi Rich.
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There, fixed it for you, back on topic.
Since mid 90's I have been logging everything and analyzing what my body likes. Nutrition and w/o's.

On the subject I was always the skinny farm boy that was as strong as a ox. (@ 110 lbs I had one of the best squats in gym class for the Senior class) I have found my body just this last few years reacts good to a combination of low reps and high reps. I personally start out with high reps average to light weight then slowly raise the weights thus lower reps pyramiding up to 1 or 2 reps then do a reverse pyramid to high reps most of my w/o's. I do change it up now and then to keep it from getting stale or if my body isn't into the general lay out.

I am sure I am probably one of few this style will work for.
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Old 10-07-2011, 01:55 PM   #16
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Okay, since you asked nicely

Here's what another guy said on another forum...

"It seems like the dry muscle serves as the base on which to add on the sarcoplasmic training. It seems logical to me that the more dry muscle mass you have to swell up with energy storage would equate to more potential for energy storage. I think advanced bodybuilders have already built up their base of dry muscle and have to squeeze every last bit of hypertrophy out of the higher rep ranges. Also why I think the consensus for beginners is to train for strength at first and gradually work into hypertrophy."
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Old 10-07-2011, 04:13 PM   #17
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There is a spectrum through which myofibril and sarcoplasmic hypertrophy occur:

1-5 Reps - Lead to a maximum increase in relative strength and myofibril recruitment.
6-8 Reps - Produce the best medium between myofibril and sarcoplasmic hypertrophy.
9-12 Reps - Increase sarcoplasmic hypertrophy at the maximum rate.
>15 Reps - You move into the range of muscular endurance where hypertrophy gains slow.
Myofibril damage will not just cease to happen at >12 reps, but it will be to a lesser degree and with less muscle fiber recruited than at lower reps.
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By designing a meal plan, you can bring structure to your diet which will help you reach your goals.

One pound of dry muscle (muscle - water/glycogen content) contains just 1800 calories. Muscle tissue is approximately 70% water, so that each pound of dry muscle holds 2 pounds of water. As a beginner, you should expect to gain 1-2 pounds of dry muscle per month. If done correctly, your total weight gain will approximately consist of 1-2 pounds of dry muscle, about 2-4 pounds of water and glycogen, and 1/2 - 1 pounds of fat. The 2 pounds of muscle and one pound of fat require approximately (1800*2+3500) = (8900)/30 = 300 calories extra each day. However, some people may be able to gain fat at a lower proportion, especially beginners, and eating 500 calories or more over maintenance may be required for optimal gains.

To determine how many calories you will need to intake, you first calculate the calories you need to maintain your weight using the calculator here. Then add 300-500 calories to get your starting point for muscle building.

If you find you are gaining more than 5 pounds a month (after the first initial stage of training, the first 3 months as a complete beginner), or you see too much fat gain, reduce calories accordingly.

If you are a "hard gainer", increase your daily calories by 200 each week until you see the progress you are looking for.
This is for the wet and dry info. (Bold) The rest was just part of the article I don't know if its fact for sure or opinion.
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Old 10-07-2011, 05:14 PM   #18
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Great resposes and thanks for the participation everyone. Definitely some good questions and answers so far.

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Old 10-07-2011, 05:19 PM   #19
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Back in 1950s and 60s, BTN press was a very popular exercise. Over the years, it seemed to get a bad name (w.r.t. rotator cuff damage), but now with the increasing popularity of strongman contests there seems to be a kind of resurgence for this lift.

Lets have a discussion on the merits and demerits of BTN press in the bodybuilding context. Do the bodybuilders here incorporate this exercise in their program. Also, would there be any benefits in doing both military press and BTN press both in a routine? Or make more sense in rotating them?
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Old 10-07-2011, 05:29 PM   #20
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Not scientific, but my observation.

Like many lifts, it is a person specific lift. For me, it is my favorite overhead press, feels good on my shoulders. I know others that are not able to even get the bar into position. If you can do it without pain, it is an other weapon to carry into the gym.
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