Muscle and Brawn Forums
 

Go Back   Muscle and Brawn Forums > Training > Muscle Building and Bodybuilding

Notices

Muscle Building and Bodybuilding Topics related to muscle building, bodybuilding, including training and fullbody workouts. If you are looking for great advice on gaining muscle this forum is for you.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 09-29-2011, 11:31 AM   #11
abett07
Senior Member
Brawn
Points: 3,343, Level: 35 Points: 3,343, Level: 35 Points: 3,343, Level: 35
Activity: 1% Activity: 1% Activity: 1%
 

Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 171
Reputation: 3465
abett07 has made some very good postsabett07 has made some very good postsabett07 has made some very good postsabett07 has made some very good postsabett07 has made some very good postsabett07 has made some very good postsabett07 has made some very good postsabett07 has made some very good postsabett07 has made some very good postsabett07 has made some very good postsabett07 has made some very good posts
Default

actualy as long as I can take it slowly with the cleans I will give starting strength a go. I will just add in some Ab work
abett07 is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 09-29-2011, 11:55 AM   #12
Pull14
Senior Member
Max Brawn
Points: 3,581, Level: 37 Points: 3,581, Level: 37 Points: 3,581, Level: 37
Activity: 4% Activity: 4% Activity: 4%
 
Pull14's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: New Jersey, US
Posts: 1,117
Training Type: Fullbody
Reputation: 32208
Pull14 is a lifting machinePull14 is a lifting machinePull14 is a lifting machinePull14 is a lifting machinePull14 is a lifting machinePull14 is a lifting machinePull14 is a lifting machinePull14 is a lifting machinePull14 is a lifting machinePull14 is a lifting machinePull14 is a lifting machine
Default

Get away from the mindset that any program has to be followed down to the T for it to be worthy. You can take your time with the cleans, you could also replace them for some time with barbell rows. Weight should move up each workout but it really doesn't have to. If the weight is feeling really heavy, kept the weight the same for an additional workout. Just start off with relatively light weight so you don't reach that point in only a couple weeks.

Following along with the first sentence of this post, throw in some curls and whatever if you want. BUT, at the point you are at right now, isolation movements are not necessary and will prove to be ineffective. Isolation movements won't do much if the strength of your big lifts are pretty low.

SS will be a good choice. Just keep in mind, even if you don't enjoy it to much: Its temporary and the gains from it will translate to strength across the board.
Pull14 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2011, 12:02 PM   #13
austin.j.taylor
Fat, Pale, Weak
Max Brawn
Points: 3,277, Level: 35 Points: 3,277, Level: 35 Points: 3,277, Level: 35
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
 
austin.j.taylor's Avatar
 

Join Date: May 2011
Location: Iowa
Posts: 733
Training Exp: 4
Training Type: Strongman
Fav Exercise: Deadlift
Fav Supp: Beer
Reputation: 29815
austin.j.taylor is a lifting machineaustin.j.taylor is a lifting machineaustin.j.taylor is a lifting machineaustin.j.taylor is a lifting machineaustin.j.taylor is a lifting machineaustin.j.taylor is a lifting machineaustin.j.taylor is a lifting machineaustin.j.taylor is a lifting machineaustin.j.taylor is a lifting machineaustin.j.taylor is a lifting machineaustin.j.taylor is a lifting machine
Default

do SS, eat tons, profit
austin.j.taylor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2011, 12:04 PM   #14
Abaddon
Strongman & Trainer
Max Brawn
Points: 8,358, Level: 61 Points: 8,358, Level: 61 Points: 8,358, Level: 61
Activity: 99% Activity: 99% Activity: 99%
 
Abaddon's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: The Iron Pit
Posts: 3,961
Training Exp: 5 years total
Training Type: Powerbuilding
Fav Exercise: Log Clean Press
Fav Supp: Meat & Milk
Reputation: 650
Abaddon has made some quality postsAbaddon has made some quality postsAbaddon has made some quality postsAbaddon has made some quality postsAbaddon has made some quality postsAbaddon has made some quality posts
Default

^That's just what people who know what they're talking about say.
__________________

W.A. AMATEUR STRONGMAN

MY LOG

PERSONAL RECORDS
Axle clean-press: 100 kgs (220 lbs)
Bench press: 135 kgs (298 lbs) - 1st PL meet 16th October 2011
Deadlift w/Barbell: 180 kgs (397 lbs)
Deadlift w/Hexbar: 225 kgs (496 lbs)
Farmers walk: 240 kgs (530 lbs), 50 feet
Front squat: 100 kgs (220 lbs)
Log clean-press: 100 kgs (220 lbs)
Strict OHP: 85 kgs (187 lbs) 3 reps
Tyre flip: 260 kgs (573 lbs), 100 feet
Abaddon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2011, 12:34 PM   #15
Shadowschmadow
Totally Bitchin'
Max Brawn
Points: 2,307, Level: 29 Points: 2,307, Level: 29 Points: 2,307, Level: 29
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
 
Shadowschmadow's Avatar
 
Soccer Tournament Champion!
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Soviet Maryland
Posts: 1,065
Training Exp: 8 years off and on
Training Type: SFW!
Fav Exercise: Bench Press
Reputation: 11624
Shadowschmadow is a dedicated contributorShadowschmadow is a dedicated contributorShadowschmadow is a dedicated contributorShadowschmadow is a dedicated contributorShadowschmadow is a dedicated contributorShadowschmadow is a dedicated contributorShadowschmadow is a dedicated contributorShadowschmadow is a dedicated contributorShadowschmadow is a dedicated contributorShadowschmadow is a dedicated contributorShadowschmadow is a dedicated contributor
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by abett07 View Post
with starting strength I dont feel confident enough to start adding weight to the bar with the power cleans , plus no isolation exercises at all ?
That's completely fine. People focus too much on how the program is written and they forget the basic principle being taught here. If you want to progress at your own pace, that's fine. But make sure you're making progress.

Isolations are hardly necessary for beginners. There are compound movements that effectively hit those accessory muscles, and hit them with greater tension (weight). You can curl 30kgs on a EZ bar and get a pump, or you can pull your 81kg up to a bar for some chins and hit a notably larger amount of muscles, with a notably heavier weight. And when that becomes easy, you get a chain-belt and dangle a 45lb plate in between your legs, and do your pull ups.

And I have never done an isolated tricep exercise that has more practical function or tears my arms up like an strict over-head press or close-grip bench.

Quote:
I totaly understand that compound exercises are the way to go but still isolation exercises must have a place in most routines ?
Isolations are a good way to bring up a lagging body part, avoid injuries in a particular area, or even help recover from an injury in a particular area. Some people require isolations to help get them to where they need to be, such as a person who has squatted quad-dominantly for most of their lifting experiences. Isolating the hamstrings and/or lower back may help them bring out a little more power, fix some possible knee pains, and fix their form in general (butt tucking, etc.).

However, the level of their importance is mostly going to be determined by your goals. Most people believe isolations are necessary from all the nonsense we've accumulated before we actually learned about lifting. Fact is, in your position, you don't need them to promote solid growth; your "bis and tris" are going to get pounded by heavy supinated and wide grip chins, and heavy OHP and bench.
__________________
The Greatest Respect You Can Earn is Self Respect.
Shadowschmadow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2011, 12:36 PM   #16
Shadowschmadow
Totally Bitchin'
Max Brawn
Points: 2,307, Level: 29 Points: 2,307, Level: 29 Points: 2,307, Level: 29
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
 
Shadowschmadow's Avatar
 
Soccer Tournament Champion!
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Soviet Maryland
Posts: 1,065
Training Exp: 8 years off and on
Training Type: SFW!
Fav Exercise: Bench Press
Reputation: 11624
Shadowschmadow is a dedicated contributorShadowschmadow is a dedicated contributorShadowschmadow is a dedicated contributorShadowschmadow is a dedicated contributorShadowschmadow is a dedicated contributorShadowschmadow is a dedicated contributorShadowschmadow is a dedicated contributorShadowschmadow is a dedicated contributorShadowschmadow is a dedicated contributorShadowschmadow is a dedicated contributorShadowschmadow is a dedicated contributor
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pull14 View Post
Get away from the mindset that any program has to be followed down to the T for it to be worthy. You can take your time with the cleans, you could also replace them for some time with barbell rows. Weight should move up each workout but it really doesn't have to. If the weight is feeling really heavy, kept the weight the same for an additional workout. Just start off with relatively light weight so you don't reach that point in only a couple weeks.

Following along with the first sentence of this post, throw in some curls and whatever if you want. BUT, at the point you are at right now, isolation movements are not necessary and will prove to be ineffective. Isolation movements won't do much if the strength of your big lifts are pretty low.

SS will be a good choice. Just keep in mind, even if you don't enjoy it to much: Its temporary and the gains from it will translate to strength across the board.
Bitch! I was in the middle of typing that giant essay saying the same thing but was interrupted several times and now that I've posted it, someone's already said it.
__________________
The Greatest Respect You Can Earn is Self Respect.
Shadowschmadow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2011, 12:42 PM   #17
BendtheBar
Bearded Beast of Duloc
Max Brawn
Points: 1,554,481, Level: 100 Points: 1,554,481, Level: 100 Points: 1,554,481, Level: 100
Activity: 49% Activity: 49% Activity: 49%
 
BendtheBar's Avatar
 
Extreme Mini Golf Champion!Tournaments Won: 6

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 80,703
Training Exp: 20+ years
Training Type: Powerbuilding
Fav Exercise: Deadlift
Fav Supp: Butter
Reputation: 2578435
BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by abett07 View Post
with starting strength I dont feel confident enough to start adding weight to the bar with the power cleans
I am very slow to add weight to Olympic lifts. I would rather see you feel comfortable with them, and then microload, then to force progression. You have nothing but time.

As far as isolation lifts, my best advice is to move away from the notion that you have to hit every muscle group directly for it to grow. One of the mantras I like to trumpet is:

Train lifts, not bodyparts.

Muscle building has had a tendency over the years to turn compound lifts into isolation lifts, placing them into nice, neat little bodypart boxes. Along with this comes a notion that if you don't train a bodypart directly you won't see gains. This tends to create bloated workout routines.

It's ok to do a few sets of curls or abs each week, but just keep in mind that heavy rows and presses are the arm builders.
__________________
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Destroy That Which Destroys You

"Let bravery be thy choice, but not bravado."


BendtheBar is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2011, 01:47 PM   #18
Shadowschmadow
Totally Bitchin'
Max Brawn
Points: 2,307, Level: 29 Points: 2,307, Level: 29 Points: 2,307, Level: 29
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
 
Shadowschmadow's Avatar
 
Soccer Tournament Champion!
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Soviet Maryland
Posts: 1,065
Training Exp: 8 years off and on
Training Type: SFW!
Fav Exercise: Bench Press
Reputation: 11624
Shadowschmadow is a dedicated contributorShadowschmadow is a dedicated contributorShadowschmadow is a dedicated contributorShadowschmadow is a dedicated contributorShadowschmadow is a dedicated contributorShadowschmadow is a dedicated contributorShadowschmadow is a dedicated contributorShadowschmadow is a dedicated contributorShadowschmadow is a dedicated contributorShadowschmadow is a dedicated contributorShadowschmadow is a dedicated contributor
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BendtheBar View Post
I am very slow to add weight to Olympic lifts. I would rather see you feel comfortable with them, and then microload, then to force progression. You have nothing but time.
Couldn't have said it better myself, big guy. Its important that you really learn to understand that last sentence. Notice how I said learn - because everyone believes they understand it, but it is actually learned through experience and doing things the wrong way.
__________________
The Greatest Respect You Can Earn is Self Respect.
Shadowschmadow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2011, 04:03 AM   #19
abett07
Senior Member
Brawn
Points: 3,343, Level: 35 Points: 3,343, Level: 35 Points: 3,343, Level: 35
Activity: 1% Activity: 1% Activity: 1%
 

Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 171
Reputation: 3465
abett07 has made some very good postsabett07 has made some very good postsabett07 has made some very good postsabett07 has made some very good postsabett07 has made some very good postsabett07 has made some very good postsabett07 has made some very good postsabett07 has made some very good postsabett07 has made some very good postsabett07 has made some very good postsabett07 has made some very good posts
Default

what would be a realistic amount for me to be lifting on the main lifts when I finish starting strength ?

is the following realistic ?

deadlift 100 kg
squat 100 kg
bench 80 kg
cleans ?
overhead press ? find I can lift very little with this lift

thanks for all the feedback
abett07 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2011, 06:05 AM   #20
Abaddon
Strongman & Trainer
Max Brawn
Points: 8,358, Level: 61 Points: 8,358, Level: 61 Points: 8,358, Level: 61
Activity: 99% Activity: 99% Activity: 99%
 
Abaddon's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: The Iron Pit
Posts: 3,961
Training Exp: 5 years total
Training Type: Powerbuilding
Fav Exercise: Log Clean Press
Fav Supp: Meat & Milk
Reputation: 650
Abaddon has made some quality postsAbaddon has made some quality postsAbaddon has made some quality postsAbaddon has made some quality postsAbaddon has made some quality postsAbaddon has made some quality posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by abett07 View Post
what would be a realistic amount for me to be lifting on the main lifts when I finish starting strength ?

is the following realistic ?

deadlift 100 kg
squat 100 kg
bench 80 kg
cleans ?
overhead press ? find I can lift very little with this lift

thanks for all the feedback
How long is a piece of string?
__________________

W.A. AMATEUR STRONGMAN

MY LOG

PERSONAL RECORDS
Axle clean-press: 100 kgs (220 lbs)
Bench press: 135 kgs (298 lbs) - 1st PL meet 16th October 2011
Deadlift w/Barbell: 180 kgs (397 lbs)
Deadlift w/Hexbar: 225 kgs (496 lbs)
Farmers walk: 240 kgs (530 lbs), 50 feet
Front squat: 100 kgs (220 lbs)
Log clean-press: 100 kgs (220 lbs)
Strict OHP: 85 kgs (187 lbs) 3 reps
Tyre flip: 260 kgs (573 lbs), 100 feet
Abaddon is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
pull, push, questions, squat, workout


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Push and pull exercises babboon Muscle Building and Bodybuilding 13 08-22-2012 02:41 PM
Real Results 3 Day Push Pull Legs Workout BendtheBar Workouts 2 06-05-2011 08:32 AM
Top 5 Push, Pull, Squat jwood Powerlifting & Strength Training 12 04-07-2011 05:17 AM
Benefits of the Push/Pull split. Trevor Ross Muscle Building and Bodybuilding 15 02-01-2011 06:01 PM
Squat, Push/Pull template jwood Powerlifting & Strength Training 10 04-25-2010 07:50 PM

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:15 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.