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Old 09-16-2011, 11:40 AM   #1
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Default HST Training Principles

I posted this on Casey's forum, but it is not all that active in regards to how many members they have and I am looking for a bit more input. I'm going to copy the 2 posts I made in that thread. Forgive me for the lengthy post(s)

Has anyone ever done HST before? I ran it once in 2009 and saw extremely good gains with both strength & hypertrophy but that was also the same time that I started taking my diet/training serious so it was likely a combination of noob gains. I have been eager to try it again for a while but have been focusing mainly on getting my compounds up and respectable so I can use the "hypertrophy" ranges with heavier weights.

There are some principles of it which go against the stream, one of which is strategic deconditioning. Thinking back, I am pretty sure I did this, and IIRC, it did work as far as size was concerned...but then again, that could have been due to noob gains.

HST is simply 2 week blocks of fullbody workouts with 1 exercise (sometimes 2 I think)/bodypart each day trained in different rep ranges for each block. I forget how the ramping goes, but you increase the weights each workout.

First 2 Week Block = 15 rep range
Second 2 Week Block = 10 rep range
Third 2 Week Block = 5 rep range
Fourth 2 Week Block (Optional) = 5 rep range again (start with the end weights of the previous block I believe) OR Eccentrics ONLY in the 5 rep range (need a spotter for this and obviously limited to certain movements, mostly cables/machines).


What I am wondering is, how exactly does the "Strategic Deconditioning" work? Every source I have found states that 9-12 days off of training (but other physical activity is encouraged/required in a sense) after the 6 or 8 weeks of training. If you continue training with HST for a period of 6 months or more, that time adds up. Does it have any merit, and is it required for this type of training?

Quote:
Training after Strategic Deconditioning results in much more rapid gains in size and strength. This phenomena lead to the idea of "muscle memory". When done properly not only do you quickly regain previously attained size and strength but you will put on new muscle and reach new levels of strength beyond your previous plateau.

So what is "Strategic Deconditioning"?

What does strategic deconditioning mean and how do we apply it to continue growing? Strategic deconditioning is simply a period of time free from training which is long enough to allow a reversal of some of the acute adaptations in muscle tissue, referring specifically to the repeated bout effect. This usually requires 9 - 12 days strait with no training. The term strategic is used because this 9 - 12 day period is not chosen at random or whenever you begin to feel "burned out" or even simply lose interest. It is done every 6-8 weeks depending on whether you finish your cycle with 5 rep work or with eccentric work respectively.

Don’t confuse deconditioning with recuperation. Recuperation denotes a restoration or re-building of the tissue. This is what your average personal trainer commonly advocates. He or she will tell you, "Give the muscle plenty of time to rest before you train it again." This pattern of training will not only produce slower gains but you will inevitably plateau more quickly, albeit a fully recuperated plateau. Your muscles will be fully recuperated within the first 7 days of the deconditioning period. At 7 days you will also still retain most of the repeated bout effects. Additional down time is required to allow the muscle to lower it’s defenses. 9-12 days is just long enough to allow deconditioning, but to prevent undue muscle atrophy.

Equally important as the deconditioning period is what you do during the 6-8 weeks of training. Standard practice is to split up your body into muscle groups and train each one separately or in groups on different days. This usually means training a given muscle once or maybe twice per week. If you were to train this way during the 6-8 weeks before your Strategic Deconditioning period you would be sorely disappointed in the result. This would only provide three workouts every 5 weeks, certainly insufficient to produce a growth promoting environment. Instead of traditional training practices you must use HST techniques to create a consistant environment that the muscle must adapt to by growing larger and stronger.

During the 6-8 weeks of training you will do full body workouts utilizing only 1-2 compound exercises per muscle group as outlined in HST. For example, for legs you will do either squats (or leg press) and leg curls. For chest you will do incline bench and weighted dips. For back do wide grip bent over rows and close grip weighted chins or pull downs. Pick one or two shoulder exercises that hit your weakest area and one exercise for biceps and one for triceps. You may alternate exercises for each muscle group from workout to workout. By alternating exercises from workout to workout you can utilize more exercises over the course of the week. This isn’t necessary f r growth, but many people chose to do this with great success.

Each and every workout you should increase the weight you use for each exercise. This means 5-10 pound increments for upper body and 10-20 pound increments for legs. This obviously requires that during the first week you are not using your previous cycle’s max loads. If the Strategic Deconditioning is done properly, you won’t need to. To choose a starting weight for your exercises, go backwards from the weights you finished with at the end of the previous cycle. Allow for 6 increases in weight with the last increase being slightly above the previous cycles finishing weight. Once again, more details can be had by reading the original publication of HST.

It is this practice of frequent loading followed by Strategic Deconditioning that allows a person to reuse submaximal poundages to illicit new muscle growth.


Also, how true is this of eccentrics? Granted, it's just based off of EMG for leg extensions over 3 months and is fairly dated, but still interesting.

Quote:
Hortobagyi (Hortobagyi, 1996) found dramatic differences between subjects performing isokinetic concentric contractions as compared to isokinetic eccentric contractions. Muscle strength, fiber size, and surface EMG activity of the quadriceps were compared after 36 sessions (12 weeks) of maximal isokinetic concentric or eccentric leg extensions.

Eccentric training increased eccentric strength 3.5 times more (pre/post 46%) than concentric training increased concentric strength (pre/post 13%). Eccentric training increased concentric strength and concentric training increased eccentric strength by about the same magnitude (5 and 10%, respectively). Eccentric training increased EMG activity seven times more during eccentric testing (pre/post 86%) than concentric training increased EMG activity during concentric testing (pre/post 12%). Eccentric training increased the EMG activity measured during concentric tests and concentric training increased the EMG activity measured during eccentric tests by about the same magnitude (8 and 11%, respectively).

Type I muscle fiber percentages did not change significantly, but type IIa fibers increased and type IIb fibers decreased significantly in both training groups. Type I fiber areas did not change significantly, but type II fiber area increased approximately 10 times more in the eccentric than in the concentric group.

It was concluded by these authors that adaptations to training with maximal eccentric contractions are specific to eccentric muscle actions that are associated with greater neural adaptation and muscle hypertrophy than concentric exercise. It is the specificity of this type of exercise that gives it questionable value to performance athletes.



Here is what Lyle has to say about HST (seems to agree with most of the principles): HST Summed Up By Lyle

The original site the HST document was hosted on apparently got taken down, but most of it can be restored here: Hypertrophy-Specific Training Series designed by Bryan Haycock



I am going to be beginning my 3rd cycle of Sheiko next week, and possibly a fourth followed by HST. It seems quite similar to HLM style training, but instead of alternating the HLM days, it does it biweekly.






After reading into it some more, this is how its supposed to be done, and 2-2.5 second eccentrics working up to your 2RM on most movements in the last 2 week block is to be performed. Obviously this doesn't work for a few movements, such as squats, so it's advised to continue with working in the 5RM range.


Here is a quote from Bryan Haycock, who designed the program:
Quote:
Actually there is. Basically, during the 15's the reps should start out slow and then speed up as you feel the burn begin to kill your strength. After all, the whole point is to flush the muscle with lactic acid.

During the 10's you should go slower when the weight is light. That way it will still be difficult to complete the set. As the weight gets heavier simply increase the tempo to ensure that you complete the set. BE careful not to get too sloppy though. It will do little good to use momentum to move the weight during the 10s.

The first week of 5's should be slow on the way down but still pretty explosive on the way up. Then as the weight nears your 5 rep max you will have no real control over how fast you move the weight. It will generally go slow simply because it is so heavy.

During negatives you should lower the weight in about 2 - 2.5 seconds. This may seem too quick to most traditionalists. Research has shown that if you go too slow during negatives you don't get the same growth stimulus. it begins to resemble the effect of isometrics if you go too slow. This is one reason why the old principle of "time under tension" isn't so simple as just time. The action of the muscle while under load is very important when trying to produce a specific effect.
An interesting interview with him & his experience/credentials. Seems pretty similar to Casey in the sense of separating BS and non BS and recommended training style is not all that different.

T NATION | Mr. Hypertrophy Bryan Haycock


A good quick summary of HST:

T NATION | Mr. Hypertrophy


Important Cliffs:

Quote:
Sets will be limited to one or two work sets per exercise. There's no problem with a single work set per body part as long as the frequency is sufficiently high and the progression in weight is consistent followed by an appropriate period of strategic deconditioning. There's nothing wrong with doing more than one or two sets, it's just more taxing on the central nervous system without significantly contributing to growth.


• Complete each workout using designated poundages, even if your muscles are slightly sore from the previous workout. It's important to know the difference between an injury and ordinary muscle soreness. Never train a muscle that's at risk of injury. Always warm up sufficiently and use correct form to avoid injury. Listen to your body.

• Following each 6 to 8-week cycle, a nine day period of strategic deconditioning should be taken during which no training should be performed.

• The whole workout can be split into a morning and afternoon session if you want. It can likewise be doubled, performing the same workout morning and evening. Keeping volume (number of sets and exercises) low is critical if doubling the workout.


To summarize, you'll do fifteen reps per exercise the first two weeks and train the entire body three times per week. You'll only be performing one or two work sets per exercise in this full body workout. In the second two week block, you'll increase the weight and drop the reps to ten. In the next two week block you'll do the same, only this time dropping the reps to five. Finally, you perform only negatives where appropriate (continue using five reps where not appropriate) and then take nine days off for the strategic deconditioning period. During this off time, you can perform light cardio.
^The CNS thing is interesting. I am doing up to 30 sets of squats a week right now, all within the 50-85% range, most of them being in the 75-85%, but the reps are usually around 3-5 for the sets. I am definitely noticing my CNS getting "used" to all of these squats, as well as growth, but it could be overkill. Regardless, I have grown to love squats and the movement is extremely natural to me now as well as an increase in my RM and being a lot more comfortable with weight under the bar.


As I am reading more into strategic conditioning, he recommends around 9-12 days, but also recommends 7 days, need to do a bit more research on it but it seems to be one of the reasons the program works so well. As far as I understand it, the loads you are using get heavy enough to the point where you are working with your 15, 10, 5 RMs respectively, and then negatives, taking it past the point of failure, and then you take time off not just for recovery purposes, but almost to make the muscle act as if you are "new" to training again in terms of muscle memory. Seems a bit like broscience but who knows.

Regardless, it would be pretty hard mentally to get over not being in the gym, at least training for the 9-12 days.

He also notes that there can be 1/2 of the workout in the AM and the other half at night, or you could do 1/2 on one day, and 1/2 the next...OR you could do 1/2 of the sets with one group of exercises, and the other half later on, so you could use different exercises as well. Going to experiment with that a lot.








So basically, what I am looking for is why is strategic conditioning required with this type of training, and if it is 100% necessary. Also, only doing 1-2 working sets/bodypart (albeit 3x a week) is MUCH less total volume/overall poundage than I am doing right now. I am squatting 2x a week, up to around 30 sets, benching 3 times a week, probably the same number of sets, and some form of sumos combined with rack pulls (or deficit/paused sumos) are done in between the squat days. I am primarily training for strength atm, so that I can use heavier poundages going into a hypertrophy based routine such as HST.
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Old 09-16-2011, 12:27 PM   #2
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Quote:
What I am wondering is, how exactly does the "Strategic Deconditioning" work? Every source I have found states that 9-12 days off of training (but other physical activity is encouraged/required in a sense) after the 6 or 8 weeks of training. If you continue training with HST for a period of 6 months or more, that time adds up. Does it have any merit, and is it required for this type of training?
I like the look of HST but when we talk about concepts like strategic deconditioning my opinion is that it will work much better for an AAS user.

Resting certainly has value, and I don't want to downplay time off from lifting, but for a natural I think it misses the mark a bit. Here's why.

A beginner will make great gains the first 2-3 year regardless, if they are training hard, progressing and eating properly. There is no indication that excessive (I think 2 months each year is excessive...your definition may vary) time away will help re-ignite "more" gains during the first 2-3 years.

HST devotes approximately 1/6th of the year to time away from training. This is equivalent to 2 months away from the gym every year. The question for this trainee becomes:

What will provide faster gains...training hard year round, or laying off 2 months each year with the notion that this layoff will result in faster gains when training?

I personally believe that HST falls short during this 2-3 year period where a natural is experiencing amazing gains.

Most naturals I talk with made the bulk of their gains during the first three years. They "clicked", by luck or research, and started training hard and eating properly. Most of these natural lifters rocketed up within 10 pounds of their natural potential. Some a bit less because they spent a lot of time dieting and competing. Casey's research backs this observation.

Now AAS. On the other hand, if you are using AAS you need time to allow your receptors to repair/recover. This bulk and cruise pattern is pretty common in the AAS realm.

Here is a good thread on MAB that explains the role receptors and stimulation play in steroid-based lifting:

http://muscleandbrawn.com/forums/pro...kam-files.html

This sums it up:

Quote:
4. The primary goal of a natural bodybuilder is to increase testosterone level with intense, short training sessions. Upregulating androgen receptor level will potentiate testosterone anabolic effects.

5. The primary goal of a steroid user is to re-open androgen receptors at any cost!
From how I understand it, a steroid user will benefit from the downtime more. The muscles becoming hyper-desensitized isn't really all that important. What is important is allowing the receptors to recover/re-boot/heal.

Because an AAS user is able to sustain quality gains after year 2, compared to a natural where gains diminish dramatically, an AAS user will derive more benefits from these cruising periods.

From Casey's post on muscle gains, we know that an average natural lifter will gain "about":

Year 1 - 16 pounds
Year 2 - 8 pounds
Year 3 - 4 pounds
Year 4 - 2 pounds
Year 5 - 1 pound

Understanding this curve, and combining this with my personal experience working with natural bodybuilders, I see no long term muscle building benefit in strategic deconditioning for naturals.

In fact, I would wager that if we took 20 naturals and trained 10 using linear progression for 3 years, and 10 using strategic deconditioning for 3 years, the linear progression lifters would have a slight advantage simply because they had more opportunities to progress.

In the end I still see progression as the deciding factor. The trainee who progresses the fastest will gain the fastest, all other factors equal.
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Old 09-16-2011, 12:46 PM   #3
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All this said, the program still sounds fun, and I think great progress could be made. How one rests...well, I would personally leave that up to how you feel every 6-8 weeks.
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Old 09-16-2011, 01:28 PM   #4
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I have tried HST twice. You get stronger, and bigger no question. Just as you would for any good sensible training program. Invariably, on the heaviest day of each microcycle, you will find yourself etching out 1-3 reps more than what you previous best was.

I don't buy into "fooling your body" stuff about SD (even though the couple of times I tried HST, I followed it to a T). How many times have you come back from a short vacation to see that you really didnt lose much strength during your time off?

Strategic de-conditioning (SD), in my opinion, this is just a fancy term for deloading.. There are many ways to deload, and taking time off from training is just one of them. If you are willing to experiment, try spending this time doing light, high rep exercises that gets your blood flowing nicely, without pushing yourself even close to the limit (after all, deload is when you are in recovery mode). In my opinion, the fact that you let your body recover during the so called SD period, you are able to bounce back stronger in the ensuing HST cycle.

Jim Wendler's 5/3/1 has you on a deload once every month, that's 2 weeks in a 8 week period. Bryan Haycock's HST has you "strategic deconditioning" for 9-12 days in a 8 week period. So, I wouldnt bother about this adding up over time. In any well thought out routine there is a period when you back off from your highest intensities and recoup. So you would lose similar amount of time on most programs anyway.
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Old 09-16-2011, 01:52 PM   #5
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The scheduled deloads are one of the reasons I tell beginners not to use programs like 5/3/1. Beginners should deload when they stall, and not before. That's why linear progression and cycles seem to work pretty well for beginners. As you get more advanced you can use scheduled deloads or auto-regulation more effectively to keep recovery going (I hesitate to use the term over-training).
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Old 09-16-2011, 05:57 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BendtheBar View Post
I like the look of HST but when we talk about concepts like strategic deconditioning my opinion is that it will work much better for an AAS user.

Resting certainly has value, and I don't want to downplay time off from lifting, but for a natural I think it misses the mark a bit. Here's why.

A beginner will make great gains the first 2-3 year regardless, if they are training hard, progressing and eating properly. There is no indication that excessive (I think 2 months each year is excessive...your definition may vary) time away will help re-ignite "more" gains during the first 2-3 years.

HST devotes approximately 1/6th of the year to time away from training. This is equivalent to 2 months away from the gym every year. The question for this trainee becomes:

What will provide faster gains...training hard year round, or laying off 2 months each year with the notion that this layoff will result in faster gains when training?

I personally believe that HST falls short during this 2-3 year period where a natural is experiencing amazing gains.

Most naturals I talk with made the bulk of their gains during the first three years. They "clicked", by luck or research, and started training hard and eating properly. Most of these natural lifters rocketed up within 10 pounds of their natural potential. Some a bit less because they spent a lot of time dieting and competing. Casey's research backs this observation.

Now AAS. On the other hand, if you are using AAS you need time to allow your receptors to repair/recover. This bulk and cruise pattern is pretty common in the AAS realm.

Here is a good thread on MAB that explains the role receptors and stimulation play in steroid-based lifting:

http://muscleandbrawn.com/forums/pro...kam-files.html

This sums it up:



From how I understand it, a steroid user will benefit from the downtime more. The muscles becoming hyper-desensitized isn't really all that important. What is important is allowing the receptors to recover/re-boot/heal.

Because an AAS user is able to sustain quality gains after year 2, compared to a natural where gains diminish dramatically, an AAS user will derive more benefits from these cruising periods.

From Casey's post on muscle gains, we know that an average natural lifter will gain "about":

Year 1 - 16 pounds
Year 2 - 8 pounds
Year 3 - 4 pounds
Year 4 - 2 pounds
Year 5 - 1 pound

Understanding this curve, and combining this with my personal experience working with natural bodybuilders, I see no long term muscle building benefit in strategic deconditioning for naturals.

In fact, I would wager that if we took 20 naturals and trained 10 using linear progression for 3 years, and 10 using strategic deconditioning for 3 years, the linear progression lifters would have a slight advantage simply because they had more opportunities to progress.

In the end I still see progression as the deciding factor. The trainee who progresses the fastest will gain the fastest, all other factors equal.
Thanks for the awesome reply BTB, you're the best.

I was reading into it, and Bryan actually states the opposite of what you're implying and that AAS users could do without SD and it's required for naturals. It was in that interview with TNation:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan Haycock
T: Would HST work for natural and "enhanced" trainees?

BH: Yes, muscle is muscle. The principles of mechanically induced muscle hypertrophy don't change from person to person or from natural to "enhanced." There are some modifications, though.

It appears that HST's effects on strength are greatly enhanced by steroids. So you end up with guys using insanely heavy weights. This just isn't advisable or necessary. The steroids more than make up for any reduction in load taken for the sake of safety. Guys cycling androgens generally cut out the negatives and sometimes the 5's [reps] and stick with 8's and 10's. The androgens really overcome the need to lift heavy as well as strategic deconditioning. Progressive load and adequate frequency are most important, not to mention diet, but that's a whole other story.

Guys really need to understand what all the anabolic drugs do. The drugs take over the nuclear and protein synthetic machinery of the cell and simply make it start growing and dividing. The more you take, and the more protein you eat, the bigger you'll generally get. Training is necessary, but it's really just used to "coax" the growth, not cause it.

Natural guys don't have the luxury of growing in spite of their training. They're forced to rely on the weight itself to get the muscle to grow. That's why most of the effort is centered around reps of five and even negatives. Without the constant heavy loading of the muscle, it just won't grow.
Bryan Haycock's interview with T-mag


For the most part, I agree with you and would consider myself about 80% within my natural potential or so, give or take. So that seems to be accurate. THIS YEAR, has by far been the best gains I have seen (Casey's FBR for 6 months, followed by so far 2 Sheiko Runs, and going on a 3rd and possibly 4th...strength gains have been the best ever and mass has followed). Aside from those noob gains from 2009, this has been my most productive year. That is where I agree with you, and attribute it to training for strength via Full Body Workouts as opposed to something like PHAT that I ran last year that did basically nothing (was in a deficit for half, but still numbers barely went up, didn't get what I put in, etc.)

I don't have time to read that article yet, but will tomorrow or Sunday and give my response. Certainly interesting that Bryan disagrees with you, but maybe that's a form of advertising.

He does agree with you about the strength gains being great for enhanced users but same thing, sacrifice is having to reduce the load so their joints don't get destroyed, so maybe what you are saying about time off for them has some merit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BendtheBar View Post
All this said, the program still sounds fun, and I think great progress could be made. How one rests...well, I would personally leave that up to how you feel every 6-8 weeks.
I agree, I think I MIGHT try the strategic deconditioning after my first cycle because you are supposed to rest between Sheiko when you are running down, so if I only do 4 more weeks, I'll just do HST and then take the week off with no training (still have Rugby/runs).

Quote:
Originally Posted by kitarpyar View Post
I have tried HST twice. You get stronger, and bigger no question. Just as you would for any good sensible training program. Invariably, on the heaviest day of each microcycle, you will find yourself etching out 1-3 reps more than what you previous best was.

I don't buy into "fooling your body" stuff about SD (even though the couple of times I tried HST, I followed it to a T). How many times have you come back from a short vacation to see that you really didnt lose much strength during your time off?

Strategic de-conditioning (SD), in my opinion, this is just a fancy term for deloading.. There are many ways to deload, and taking time off from training is just one of them. If you are willing to experiment, try spending this time doing light, high rep exercises that gets your blood flowing nicely, without pushing yourself even close to the limit (after all, deload is when you are in recovery mode). In my opinion, the fact that you let your body recover during the so called SD period, you are able to bounce back stronger in the ensuing HST cycle.

Jim Wendler's 5/3/1 has you on a deload once every month, that's 2 weeks in a 8 week period. Bryan Haycock's HST has you "strategic deconditioning" for 9-12 days in a 8 week period. So, I wouldnt bother about this adding up over time. In any well thought out routine there is a period when you back off from your highest intensities and recoup. So you would lose similar amount of time on most programs anyway.
Thanks for the comment, and I agree about the deload comparison to SD which is why I was hesitant. Also, I have more or less "conditioned" my CNS to handle heavy loads for days at a time. I do the Sheiko routine handing as I said, around 8-15 sets of heavy squats 2x a week, bench 3x a week, and sumos (or deficits/paused) and rack pulls once a week, the required accessory work AND 2 added "hypertrophy" type days at some point within a week's period (5 days straight is too much I have noticed, so take certain points off going by feel.

I did the same thing with the full body routine more or less, just higher reps but still doing deads + squats 3x a week and had the 2 hypertrophy days (sometimes 1)...so I think the SD would be going backwards.

I think

Quote:
Originally Posted by Off Road View Post
The scheduled deloads are one of the reasons I tell beginners not to use programs like 5/3/1. Beginners should deload when they stall, and not before. That's why linear progression and cycles seem to work pretty well for beginners. As you get more advanced you can use scheduled deloads or auto-regulation more effectively to keep recovery going (I hesitate to use the term over-training).
Well I would not consider myself a beginner, an intermediate I would say. I have been lifting serious since 2009. Totals for Sheiko are 445 sumo, 335 squat, 245 bench.

I know what you are saying though. I think the CNS just adapts to your lifestyle. I have Rugby practice 4-5x a week, lift 5x a week, etc. and as long as I stay in a surplus and get adequate sleep, I almost never have DOMS or soreness unless I do a new accessory exercise.




Thanks for the answers everyone, I think I will do what I said above and do my next Sheiko run, an 8 week run of HST, then a period of 7-9 days off of training (still gonna do cardio + rugby) and see how that goes. If I feel fine, I might just do higher rep hypertrophy type full body workouts once every few days in that period or something.
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Old 09-16-2011, 06:55 PM   #7
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Oh and for what it is worth, here are a few pics of when I ran HST and the progress of my main lifts. I ran it in 2009 during April --> August. I believe I was playing soccer and tennis a lot during the summer, hence the tan + a bit leaner in August.

I gave a brief overview of my training, so even when I ran this, I was not a noob and had almost a year's worth of training under my belt, probably something like 8 months combined or so.

Prior to HST (Had around 3-4 months of training, mostly an inconsistent run of madcows then I believe I actually did do it. From this point to HST it was MAX-OT, which also gave me good gains the first go-around (barely any in 2010):






End MAX-OT:




Beginning HST:




Middle HST:




(Almost done HST):




End HST:





Have a few more pics of diff poses but that covers it for the most part


End of HST, then moved onto a basic 5 day split at the advice of some random person, pretty sure it was like that til the rest of 2009. 2010 = MAX-OT + PHAT then as said above somewhere, FBR for 6 months, now Sheiko and here I am. Sorry for the overview but just providing some background and where I saw the best gains.



I had lifted in late 2007 for a few weeks (pretty sure it was just bench, failed 40 or 50 lbs lol). Picked it back up next summer for another few weeks (about half or 2/3 of madcows). Ran Madcows later that year consistently, then MAX-OT for a few months, then HST. Been pretty much consistent 100% ever since minus a month here or there during seasons of sports in HS, but even then still was on a basic split IIRC.
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