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Muscle Building and Bodybuilding Topics related to muscle building, bodybuilding, including training and fullbody workouts. If you are looking for great advice on gaining muscle this forum is for you.

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Old 09-06-2011, 08:23 AM   #21
gethuge69
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Ok, so cut back on the cardio for one thing..Maybe ill stick to two session of 20 mins high intesnity.. I dont mind low intensity just hate doing anything over more than 20 mins of walking/running/jogging/cardio whatever.

You guys said that the routine above is too much?? SOldier and anyone/everyone else agree with that?? Thats not the best way to go??

Monday
Squat or box squat 2 x 5
Glute/Ham Raises or pullthroughs 3 x 10
Bent Row or Chest Supported row 4 x 6
Barbell or Dumbbell Curl 3 x 8
Calf Raises 3 x 15

Wednesday
Bench Press or low board press 3 x 5, or 3 x 3
Incline Dumbbell Bench Press 4 x 8
Military or Dumbbell Shoulder Press 3 x 8
Skull Crushers 3 x 10
Ab work 3 x 10

Friday
Deadlift or rack deadlift 2 x 5
Leg press 2 x 10
Chin or lat pull-down 4 x 6
Barbell or Dumbbell Curl 3 x 8
Calf Raises 3 x 15

Monday
Incline bench press or Incline Dumbbell Press 3 x 5, or 3 x 3
Dumbbell Bench Press 4 x 8
Military or Dumbbell Shoulder Press 3 x 8
Tricep pushdowns 3 x 10
Ab work 3 x 10

Repeat.

Done Mon/Wed/Fri



Would a better option be Bill STarr's 5x5, or this above routine by Iron Addict.com?? or anyother suggestions?

And here is the current routine i'm doing:

Mondays workout:
quads and Calves
Squats: 4 sets between 6-10 reps..205
Leg extensions: 4 sets.. 8-10 rep..97.5
Lunges: 4x6-10..3

calves:
standing calf raises 4 sets between 15-20 reps ..140
steated calf raises 4 sets between 15-20 reps..65

Tuesday: Shoulders, hammies and cardio session
Dumbell presses: 4 sets between 6-10 reps..40
Side laterals( both arms at the same time) sometimes standing sometimes sitting.. alternate each week 4 sets between 8-10 reps..30
Rear laterals( for rear delts) keep reps between 8-10 on these too bro..20
Dumbell shruggs: 4 sets of 6-10 reps..( reps can go back to lower reps here as you can see)..65

Hamstrings
Straight leg deadlifts with dumbells... 4 sets of 8-10 reps..40
single leg curls ( if you can do these at home) 4 sets of 8-10 reps..75

Cardio session: right after lifting go s traight to cardio on this day and do your 20 min hit session

Wednesday: Tri's, bis cardio
Tri's
Close grip bench - 4x6 to 8 reps..180
Skulls 4x8 - 10..10 and 5 and 5
Pushdowns 4x8-10..4

Biceps
Standing barbell curls: 4 sets of 8-10 reps.. Two 10s, 5, 5
single arm concentration curl: 4 sets of 8-10 reps..25
hammer curls, one arm at a time: 4 sets of 8-10 reps..40


Thursday Back
wide grip pulldowns to the front... 4 sets of 8-10 reps..9
close grip pulldowns to the front 4 sets of 8-10 rep..10
single arm rowing: 4 sets with each arm reps between 6-10..60
wide grip bent over rowing: 4 sets of 6-8 reps..130

Friday: Chest and cardio
Flat bench press, alternate between bar and dumbells 4 sets of 8-10 reps..200
incline press, alternate betwen bar and dumbells 4 sets of 8-10 reps..140 or 50 to 55
Dips 4 sets to all out failure
Pushups to finish up the workout: slightly wide stance and hit 4 sets to failure
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Old 09-06-2011, 08:29 AM   #22
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I'd say it's too much, yes. You are being way too clinical in dividing up the muscle groups and wanting to include as many exercises as possible into each routine.

If a body part split is your thing, check out my 4 day routine. It's in my signature.

But if you'd like a regimen that's going to generate real gains for someone like yourself, I suggest you scrap this approach and adopt a 3 day full body routine.

And as for your cardio: 5-10 minutes low intensity pre-workout and 5-10 minutes low intensity post-workout is the maximum I would recommend for you. You are having trouble gaining mass. More cardio is a bad thing.

Besides, if you aren't feeling drained and weak after your routine, you aren't going hard enough.
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Old 09-06-2011, 08:30 AM   #23
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I love IA's Simple Power Based Routine. It's three days a week, Push/Pull split, three BIG movements every session, and just a couple of smaller lifts thrown in for balance. That's everything you need all rolled into a nice neat package.

I am actually thinking of running that routine when my Juggernaut is over. I need some time with lower reps.

Last edited by Off Road; 09-06-2011 at 08:32 AM.
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Old 09-06-2011, 08:56 AM   #24
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Ok.. So what do I do? Iron Addicts routine, or a fullbody like Bill Starr's 5x5? At first I thought sttrength was size also but after getting my deads to 2 times my bodyweight and not seeing a difference I kind of thought that the whole idea of putting all this emphasis on the compound lifts for size wasant exactly correct. And that its more for strength. I guess what I was missing was under eating right?

And again which routine should I do as a few ideas and opinions were mentioned? The uupper and lower seemed good cuz it has the compound lifts but also accessory stuff so I figured I was getting the size work in too. I guess the point is strength really is size and I should be concentration on getting up mt big lifts, correct?

So which routine do I chose, upper, lower, ironaddicts, bill starr, etc?

And as far as a long term plan goes, after imonths or years or whatever of doing whatever routine, where would I go from there? Like after bill starrs say, or iron addicts, after I've surpassed those, would I then go to an upper lower split like the other one, or what happens after that intermediate level is perhaps advanced?
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Old 09-06-2011, 09:03 AM   #25
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It sounds like you are already keen to move on from wherever you consider yourself to be now.

It sounds like you are distracted by all these different routines and are looking to find some way of incorporating them all, to make the most successful routine of all!

Well, the bad news is, this will not achieve much. 'Muscle Confusion' is nonsense, for natural builders. Many natural builders will use much the same routine for years - sometimes decades - and only minor changes are occasionally needed.

If you reached a 2x bodyweight deadlift I applaud you! My question is, why did you stop there?! Progression is key, always.

Take it back to formula buddy. Full body. Heavy compounds. Max effort. 3 days a week.
IMHO.
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MY LOG

PERSONAL RECORDS
Axle clean-press: 100 kgs (220 lbs)
Bench press: 135 kgs (298 lbs) - 1st PL meet 16th October 2011
Deadlift w/Barbell: 180 kgs (397 lbs)
Deadlift w/Hexbar: 225 kgs (496 lbs)
Farmers walk: 240 kgs (530 lbs), 50 feet
Front squat: 100 kgs (220 lbs)
Log clean-press: 100 kgs (220 lbs)
Strict OHP: 85 kgs (187 lbs) 3 reps
Tyre flip: 260 kgs (573 lbs), 100 feet
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Old 09-06-2011, 09:20 AM   #26
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Ok thanks abaddon, so go wit full body like bill starr and milk it for years to come?

And to answer your question I stopped at 28 my bodyweight in deads cuz I wasn't putting on any size and ddidnt look different at all so figured strength routines were different than size..

Any more feedback??
Anyone else?
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Old 09-06-2011, 09:28 AM   #27
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You've done Starting Strength, Upper/Lower split, and bodypart splits. That, if done correctly, represents a few years of solid training. In those few years you should have learned a LOT about yourself and what works. How long have you been training? What seems to work the best/longest?

While a double bodyweight deadlift is commendable, if you have been doing things correctly for the past few years then you should be around 200lb bodyweight and fairly solid. That would be a 400 lb deadlift at 2X bodyweight. Not too shabby, but shoot for a 500lb deadlift as a good goal and don't be happy until you get there.
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Old 09-06-2011, 09:53 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Abaddon View Post
It sounds like you are already keen to move on from wherever you consider yourself to be now.

It sounds like you are distracted by all these different routines and are looking to find some way of incorporating them all, to make the most successful routine of all!

Well, the bad news is, this will not achieve much. 'Muscle Confusion' is nonsense, for natural builders. Many natural builders will use much the same routine for years - sometimes decades - and only minor changes are occasionally needed.

If you reached a 2x bodyweight deadlift I applaud you! My question is, why did you stop there?! Progression is key, always.

Take it back to formula buddy. Full body. Heavy compounds. Max effort. 3 days a week.
IMHO.
I've got to say, with complete respect, that I completely disagree with where you're going. He's built a good solid base of strength, but wasn't reaching his goal of building size. He hasn't said anything about wanting to be a powerlifter, so obviously lifting heavier weights but not gaining mass isn't working for him.

The workout he had set up on the last page was based around compound movements that would allow him to apply progression to build both strength and size, with some isolation stuff thrown in. If that's not the basis of a good, solid bodybuilding routine, then I must have gotten off track a loooong time ago.

As for muscle confusion, no one ever mentioned that at all! In fact, we've already established that he should plan to stick with whatever program he chooses as long as it gives him results, even if he sticks with it for years to come. That's the opposite of muscle confusion.

The modifications I made to his planned program introduced more bodyweight work and a little dynamic work to keep things interesting. I think it was a solid plan, and just because a plan has more than 4 movements doesn't mean it's bad or overkill. Whats the harm in doing 3 sets of bench and 3 sets of dips instead of 6 sets of bench?

Off road- If he was 200 lbs, then he'd have a good 20-30 lbs of fat he'd have to get rid of at this point. If he slowly moves up his intake and does a good job of keeping track of it, then he should start to see the mass to go along with his strength without having to spend 2 years cutting.

Get huge69- Remember, the diet really is more important than the specifics of the workout. If you do decide to go wtih a full body routine, then it can definitely work for you, but focus on how the diet combines with the training to move you towards your goals.

Of course, on the internet, or anywhere else for that matter, opinions will very. I personally like the plan you put up, especially with my modifications, for your goal of bodybuilding. If at some point you decide that strength is more important, than I believe that will change what program will work best for you, and you'll need to rethink things.
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Old 09-06-2011, 10:04 AM   #29
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Thx soldier. No strength is not my goal at all!! I want size, I wanna look like a bodybuilder or a kid on steroids except I don't take steroids lol. So I think ill stay wit the upper lower then cuz just pushing up my strnetgth base isn't giving me size as you said. Only thing I liked about the full body or iron addicts routine is its 3 days, not 4 so I have more time out of the gym (damn 5 days was overkill plus wit the dam 3 days of cardio) so stay wit 4 days upper lower, and not too much cardio (2 days) good diet, eating a lot witout getting fat, and stay trying to bring up my big lifts? I loved the ironaddicts routine but I guess its more geared towards strength
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Old 09-06-2011, 10:06 AM   #30
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Off road- If he was 200 lbs, then he'd have a good 20-30 lbs of fat he'd have to get rid of at this point. If he slowly moves up his intake and does a good job of keeping track of it, then he should start to see the mass to go along with his strength without having to spend 2 years cutting.
And that was my point! If he has done everything the way it should be done, in three years he should be approaching 200lbs and be fairly solid. I've seen it done a thousand times over. If he hasn't reached that point, then he needs to figure out why and fix it.
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