Muscle and Brawn Forums
 

Go Back   Muscle and Brawn Forums > Training > Muscle Building and Bodybuilding
Mark Forums Read
Register Articles Members List Search Today's Posts

Notices

Muscle Building and Bodybuilding Topics related to muscle building, bodybuilding, including training and fullbody workouts. If you are looking for great advice on gaining muscle this forum is for you.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 09-01-2011, 08:39 AM   #21
Abaddon
Strongman & Trainer
Max Brawn
Points: 8,358, Level: 61 Points: 8,358, Level: 61 Points: 8,358, Level: 61
Activity: 99% Activity: 99% Activity: 99%
 
Abaddon's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: The Iron Pit
Posts: 3,959
Training Exp: 5 years total
Training Type: Powerbuilding
Fav Exercise: Log Clean Press
Fav Supp: Meat & Milk
Reputation: 650
Abaddon has made some quality postsAbaddon has made some quality postsAbaddon has made some quality postsAbaddon has made some quality postsAbaddon has made some quality postsAbaddon has made some quality posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Off Road View Post
I don't think it is all about choosing the best lift. It is obvious that the chin-up is superior because it works a lot more than just the biceps and allows a greater weight to be used. But the barbell curl is also an important exercise and has a great benefit to other lifts as an accessory lift. Just like the bench press is a great lift but I wouldn't leave out doing a little extra triceps work, just don't go overboard with it. A little goes a long way.
Further simplified: chinups are a compound movement, and (strict) curls are an isolation movement.

Compound > Isolation. Unless a bodybuilder's mass all over is your goal... and even then, if you're doing it naturally, compounds still rule.
__________________

W.A. AMATEUR STRONGMAN

MY LOG

PERSONAL RECORDS
Axle clean-press: 100 kgs (220 lbs)
Bench press: 135 kgs (298 lbs) - 1st PL meet 16th October 2011
Deadlift w/Barbell: 180 kgs (397 lbs)
Deadlift w/Hexbar: 225 kgs (496 lbs)
Farmers walk: 240 kgs (530 lbs), 50 feet
Front squat: 100 kgs (220 lbs)
Log clean-press: 100 kgs (220 lbs)
Strict OHP: 85 kgs (187 lbs) 3 reps
Tyre flip: 260 kgs (573 lbs), 100 feet
Abaddon is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 09-01-2011, 10:03 AM   #22
Chillen
Senior Member
Max Brawn
Points: 6,498, Level: 52 Points: 6,498, Level: 52 Points: 6,498, Level: 52
Activity: 8% Activity: 8% Activity: 8%
 
Chillen's Avatar
 

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Kansas
Posts: 1,920
Training Exp: 5+ years
Training Type: Bodybuilding
Fav Exercise: Pullup/Bent Over Row
Fav Supp: Feeding the Brain
Reputation: 142677
Chillen is a master memberChillen is a master memberChillen is a master memberChillen is a master memberChillen is a master memberChillen is a master memberChillen is a master memberChillen is a master memberChillen is a master memberChillen is a master memberChillen is a master member
Default

The bicep is such a small muscle as compared to the rest of the body, and gets so much attention. In my opinion, the bicep/tricep of the arm are two muscles that facilitate (create) the movement of the larger/stronger muscles of the body. If you were to cut off your arms just below the shoulders, practically none of the upper body larger muscles would get worked.

So does it stand to common sense and reason, that if you work the larger muscles of the body through compound movements, the arms would also "have to" grow stronger/larger to assist the movement? Yes, it does. It isn't rocket science, at least in my opinion.

But, it also stands to common sense, that (dependent) the tricep/bicep would also potentially fatigue earlier (dependent upon the movement, where the larger muscle targeted isnt fatgued), and some ISO's can assist this at certain stages in ones program--dependent upon the problem.
__________________
Age: 53

After losing 40+ unwanted lbs:

At 152/154lbs:


At 162-168:
Chillen is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2011, 10:19 AM   #23
Shadowschmadow
Totally Bitchin'
Max Brawn
Points: 2,307, Level: 29 Points: 2,307, Level: 29 Points: 2,307, Level: 29
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
 
Shadowschmadow's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Soviet Maryland
Posts: 1,065
Training Exp: 8 years off and on
Training Type: SFW!
Fav Exercise: Bench Press
Reputation: 11624
Shadowschmadow is a dedicated contributorShadowschmadow is a dedicated contributorShadowschmadow is a dedicated contributorShadowschmadow is a dedicated contributorShadowschmadow is a dedicated contributorShadowschmadow is a dedicated contributorShadowschmadow is a dedicated contributorShadowschmadow is a dedicated contributorShadowschmadow is a dedicated contributorShadowschmadow is a dedicated contributorShadowschmadow is a dedicated contributor
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chillen View Post
The bicep is such a small muscle as compared to the rest of the body, and gets so much attention. In my opinion, the bicep/tricep of the arm are two muscles that facilitate (create) the movement of the larger/stronger muscles of the body. If you were to cut off your arms just below the shoulders, practically none of the upper body larger muscles would get worked.

So does it stand to common sense and reason, that if you work the larger muscles of the body through compound movements, the arms would also "have to" grow stronger/larger to assist the movement? Yes, it does. It isn't rocket science, at least in my opinion.

But, it also stands to common sense, that (dependent) the tricep/bicep would also potentially fatigue earlier (dependent upon the movement, where the larger muscle targeted isnt fatgued), and some ISO's can assist this at certain stages in ones program--dependent upon the problem.
I'm an advocate of balance; meaning no muscle gets left behind. I'm not suggesting that the bicep does not need attention. I'm suggesting that chins are over curls because they utilize the bicep, as well as other muscles, with greater tension.

But you are right, that specific context of usefulness of isolating a praticular muscle is dependant upon different stages of training.
__________________
The Greatest Respect You Can Earn is Self Respect.
Shadowschmadow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2011, 10:27 AM   #24
Chillen
Senior Member
Max Brawn
Points: 6,498, Level: 52 Points: 6,498, Level: 52 Points: 6,498, Level: 52
Activity: 8% Activity: 8% Activity: 8%
 
Chillen's Avatar
 

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Kansas
Posts: 1,920
Training Exp: 5+ years
Training Type: Bodybuilding
Fav Exercise: Pullup/Bent Over Row
Fav Supp: Feeding the Brain
Reputation: 142677
Chillen is a master memberChillen is a master memberChillen is a master memberChillen is a master memberChillen is a master memberChillen is a master memberChillen is a master memberChillen is a master memberChillen is a master memberChillen is a master memberChillen is a master member
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GT-R View Post
I'm an advocate of balance; meaning no muscle gets left behind. I'm not suggesting that the bicep does not need attention. I'm suggesting that chins are over curls because they utilize the bicep, as well as other muscles, with greater tension.

But you are right, that specific context of usefulness of isolating a praticular muscle is dependant upon different stages of training.
If I had to pick ONE upper body movement, Chinups/Pullups would be the exercise. These exercises work nearly every muscle of the upper body (the core is stabilizing or doing its designed intention), and would assist me more in practial function in living life, than iso/compound curls would ever come close to. And, I agree too, balance is important.
__________________
Age: 53

After losing 40+ unwanted lbs:

At 152/154lbs:


At 162-168:
Chillen is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2011, 10:31 AM   #25
SeventySeven
Senior Member
Max Brawn
Points: 5,586, Level: 48 Points: 5,586, Level: 48 Points: 5,586, Level: 48
Activity: 3% Activity: 3% Activity: 3%
 
SeventySeven's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,184
Training Exp: 1 year+
Training Type: Powerbuilding
Fav Exercise: Deadlift
Fav Supp: Xtend
Reputation: 38396
SeventySeven is a lifting machineSeventySeven is a lifting machineSeventySeven is a lifting machineSeventySeven is a lifting machineSeventySeven is a lifting machineSeventySeven is a lifting machineSeventySeven is a lifting machineSeventySeven is a lifting machineSeventySeven is a lifting machineSeventySeven is a lifting machineSeventySeven is a lifting machine
Default

I do BW chins, then assisted chins...leaves my back and arms screaming.
SeventySeven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2011, 10:38 AM   #26
Soldier
Senior Member
Max Brawn
Points: 14,594, Level: 78 Points: 14,594, Level: 78 Points: 14,594, Level: 78
Activity: 89% Activity: 89% Activity: 89%
 
Soldier's Avatar
 

Join Date: May 2011
Location: Ft. Hood, Tx
Posts: 4,129
Training Exp: On and off for 17 years.
Training Type: ARGH!!!
Fav Exercise: Bosu kickback pistols
Fav Supp: Crack on a trisket
Reputation: 254492
Soldier is an elite memberSoldier is an elite memberSoldier is an elite memberSoldier is an elite memberSoldier is an elite memberSoldier is an elite memberSoldier is an elite memberSoldier is an elite memberSoldier is an elite memberSoldier is an elite memberSoldier is an elite member
Default

Asking which of these is better is like asking if someone who does curls will have bigger biceps than someone who doesn't. . .it's not as simple as that. I have great, shapely arms that fit very well with the rest of my physique, and I only do curls once in a blue moon, and usually only as part of a shoulders complex (I really like using a pair of dumbells and doing a laterall raise, then curling the weights into an Arnold press then back down for reps.). What I DO do is heavy rows, pullups, chin ups, dead lifts and power cleans, just like most of us here.

And usually when I do see someone curling, I'm done with my whole workout while they are still doing them. I think it's poor programming that gives curls a bad name, but I still find them unnecesary.

As far as what stimulates the muscle best, it's definitely chins.
Soldier is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2011, 10:45 AM   #27
big valsalva
Viking Warrior
Max Brawn
Points: 9,101, Level: 64 Points: 9,101, Level: 64 Points: 9,101, Level: 64
Activity: 7% Activity: 7% Activity: 7%
 
big valsalva's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 2,614
Training Exp: 10 years
Training Type: 5x5
Fav Exercise: Bench Press
Fav Supp: Meat
Reputation: 72128
big valsalva is a lifting beastbig valsalva is a lifting beastbig valsalva is a lifting beastbig valsalva is a lifting beastbig valsalva is a lifting beastbig valsalva is a lifting beastbig valsalva is a lifting beastbig valsalva is a lifting beastbig valsalva is a lifting beastbig valsalva is a lifting beastbig valsalva is a lifting beast
Default

An important distinction too is: which exercise are you talking about?

Strictly speaking, chinups use a suppinated or underhand grip. Similar to what you would use on a straight bar curl. Strictly speaking, pullups use a pronated or overhand grip. Physiologically, the biceps are best involved/activated using the suppinated or underhand grip. Therefore the most direct comparison can be drawn between the chinup and bicep curl. My humble opinion: If you HAVE to choose, then chinups it is. If PULLUPS are currently in your routine, then don't be ashamed to add some curls. Currently I'm trying to cover all my bases. I am doing chins and DB curls on my OHP day, and Wide Grip Pronated Lat Pulldowns with straight bar curls on my bench day. Once I can pulldown a significant percentage of my bodyweight for reps, then I'll jettison the pulldowns and start working on pullups.

Neutral grip pullups are a different matter. True, there is more bicep involvment than on overhand pullups, but the greatest emphasis is on the brachialis. Not a bad thing either. Probably do neutrals instead of EZ Bar Curls, if that's the way you roll.
__________________
Bogdan Petia Sarac - Must keel moose and squirrel

Cancer Survivor - 7/21/10

Benchmark 5K time: 27:45 (3/5/11)

It's not the weight we move, but the people we move that matters. -- Bearded Beast of Duloc (12/31/10)
big valsalva is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2011, 10:48 AM   #28
big valsalva
Viking Warrior
Max Brawn
Points: 9,101, Level: 64 Points: 9,101, Level: 64 Points: 9,101, Level: 64
Activity: 7% Activity: 7% Activity: 7%
 
big valsalva's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 2,614
Training Exp: 10 years
Training Type: 5x5
Fav Exercise: Bench Press
Fav Supp: Meat
Reputation: 72128
big valsalva is a lifting beastbig valsalva is a lifting beastbig valsalva is a lifting beastbig valsalva is a lifting beastbig valsalva is a lifting beastbig valsalva is a lifting beastbig valsalva is a lifting beastbig valsalva is a lifting beastbig valsalva is a lifting beastbig valsalva is a lifting beastbig valsalva is a lifting beast
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abaddon View Post
I recently did 2 chin ups. I weigh 150 kilograms.
Pinwheels it is.
You only need to do one to potentially save your life. You curled your bodyweight twice. You are a beast.
__________________
Bogdan Petia Sarac - Must keel moose and squirrel

Cancer Survivor - 7/21/10

Benchmark 5K time: 27:45 (3/5/11)

It's not the weight we move, but the people we move that matters. -- Bearded Beast of Duloc (12/31/10)
big valsalva is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2011, 10:54 AM   #29
big valsalva
Viking Warrior
Max Brawn
Points: 9,101, Level: 64 Points: 9,101, Level: 64 Points: 9,101, Level: 64
Activity: 7% Activity: 7% Activity: 7%
 
big valsalva's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 2,614
Training Exp: 10 years
Training Type: 5x5
Fav Exercise: Bench Press
Fav Supp: Meat
Reputation: 72128
big valsalva is a lifting beastbig valsalva is a lifting beastbig valsalva is a lifting beastbig valsalva is a lifting beastbig valsalva is a lifting beastbig valsalva is a lifting beastbig valsalva is a lifting beastbig valsalva is a lifting beastbig valsalva is a lifting beastbig valsalva is a lifting beastbig valsalva is a lifting beast
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soldier View Post
And usually when I do see someone curling, I'm done with my whole workout while they are still doing them. I think it's poor programming that gives curls a bad name, but I still find them unnecesary.
For the win! *Ding, Ding, Ding, Ding*

I couldn't have said it any better myself. Curls can be cool. Its the programming and overemphasis.
__________________
Bogdan Petia Sarac - Must keel moose and squirrel

Cancer Survivor - 7/21/10

Benchmark 5K time: 27:45 (3/5/11)

It's not the weight we move, but the people we move that matters. -- Bearded Beast of Duloc (12/31/10)
big valsalva is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2011, 10:59 AM   #30
Soldier
Senior Member
Max Brawn
Points: 14,594, Level: 78 Points: 14,594, Level: 78 Points: 14,594, Level: 78
Activity: 89% Activity: 89% Activity: 89%
 
Soldier's Avatar
 

Join Date: May 2011
Location: Ft. Hood, Tx
Posts: 4,129
Training Exp: On and off for 17 years.
Training Type: ARGH!!!
Fav Exercise: Bosu kickback pistols
Fav Supp: Crack on a trisket
Reputation: 254492
Soldier is an elite memberSoldier is an elite memberSoldier is an elite memberSoldier is an elite memberSoldier is an elite memberSoldier is an elite memberSoldier is an elite memberSoldier is an elite memberSoldier is an elite memberSoldier is an elite memberSoldier is an elite member
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by big valsalva View Post
An important distinction too is: which exercise are you talking about?

Strictly speaking, chinups use a suppinated or underhand grip. Similar to what you would use on a straight bar curl. Strictly speaking, pullups use a pronated or overhand grip. Physiologically, the biceps are best involved/activated using the suppinated or underhand grip. Therefore the most direct comparison can be drawn between the chinup and bicep curl. My humble opinion: If you HAVE to choose, then chinups it is. If PULLUPS are currently in your routine, then don't be ashamed to add some curls. Currently I'm trying to cover all my bases. I am doing chins and DB curls on my OHP day, and Wide Grip Pronated Lat Pulldowns with straight bar curls on my bench day. Once I can pulldown a significant percentage of my bodyweight for reps, then I'll jettison the pulldowns and start working on pullups.

Neutral grip pullups are a different matter. True, there is more bicep involvment than on overhand pullups, but the greatest emphasis is on the brachialis. Not a bad thing either. Probably do neutrals instead of EZ Bar Curls, if that's the way you roll.
I think it also has more to do with how far apart your hands are. I find that generally speaking, the closer your hands are to eachother while on a bar, the more the arm muscles take over. I can do about 12 chins supinated close grip and 5-6 pullups pronated wide grip, but pronated with my hands shoulder width I can do around 10, and with my hands as close as the chins I can also do around 12.
Soldier is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
barbell, chin, curls, ups, versus


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Can't do a lot of chin-ups? Off Road Powerlifting & Strength Training 3 12-20-2011 02:44 PM
chin ups vs pull ups muscles worked ? abett07 Muscle Building and Bodybuilding 10 12-15-2011 08:37 PM
Improving Your Chin Ups BendtheBar Muscle Building and Bodybuilding 12 11-24-2011 01:12 PM
Barbell "Kroc" Curls BendtheBar Video Compilations 0 05-08-2011 05:50 PM
Pinwheel Curls Abaddon Muscle Building and Bodybuilding 45 02-08-2011 07:11 PM

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:58 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.