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-   -   Muscle fiber types (http://www.muscleandbrawn.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6631)

swoleramon 06-24-2011 12:59 PM

Muscle fiber types
 
Is there any reason to worry about muscle fiber types?

BendtheBar 06-24-2011 01:06 PM

I don't. Hasn't held me back.

I come from the KISS school of lifting.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m...he_Midgets.jpg

Rich Knapp 06-24-2011 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swoleramon (Post 147778)
Is there any reason to worry about muscle fiber types?

If your a competitive bber were there is more involved than brute power it can be beneficial to promote symmetry.

If you do a well planed out workout as most experience lifters do, you hit them all anyways.

Knowing them can help you set up a good workout plan in the beginning then it becomes second nature for most, and they don't even realize they are doing it. Workouts programs like West Side, FD/FR, P/RR/S to name a few, they hit them all threw steps/stages in the plan.

Fazc 06-24-2011 03:27 PM

Unless you specifically want to understand the *why* behind a routine or rep scheme it's not neccesary no.

Personally I find it quite interesting and have a few neuromechanic/kinesiology/anatomy books on my shelf and i've had some discussions on these issues with a few people in-the-know. But rarely has it contributed much to my training. My training info comes from experience, both my own and that of other lifters. The science behind it mainly rationalises *why*. Unless you're on the cutting edge of muscle research it's highly unlikely your interpretation of someone else's text will suddenly enlighten you or anybody else to anything not already well known. So i'll leave all that to the Enoka's of this world.

For example you don't need to know why gravity works, to know that jumping off a tall building might hurt a little. You just need to know that stuff generally goes down. In the same way most who lift weights are interested in the results rather than why they obtain those results, if you see the distinction there.

Spartigus 06-25-2011 12:01 AM

I find it interesting to knowing about it. But when people start saying stuff like "you only get myofibril hypertrophy when you lift below 5 reps so you dont get a lot of size", which is something you will hear a lot of people say, things start to go wrong and it starts to become something its not and people get confused.

The reality is, if your muscles are getting better, you get myofribril hypertrophy, sarcoplasmic hypertrophy, as well as an increase in connective tissue, glycogen stores, fat in between muscles and I think a few other things as well.

You can probably find books or studies that talk about rep ranges and where the focus of the hypertrophy is, but I it varies from person to person.

If you didnt get all of them, then you wouldnt get stronger if you lifted in the 8-12 rep range and you wouldnt get much bigger lifting in the 1-5 rep range. I think a lot of those misconceptions about rep range and size/strength increases come from overcomplicating things like this.

Rich Knapp 06-25-2011 10:04 AM

http://muscleandbrawn.com/forums/bod...ibers-why.html

Explain much of what you all make points in.

What people don't realize is, we have always worked all 3 type. They just give them a fancy name now.

warm ups sets, power sets, working sets

I look at logs on here a lot and almost every person on here hit all 3 fiber types in every workout. But do they full understand why it helps, or are they just doing what they read helps and don't full understand the reasons why it helps. If my car runs better on one gas vrs another, personal I'd kind of like to know why.

There is workout systems that just brake it down to weeks at a time rather than every workout.

Everyone has a fiber dominance thats why there are so many different workout styles that have documented proof they work. ;)

Abaddon 06-25-2011 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich Knapp (Post 147949)
http://muscleandbrawn.com/forums/bod...ibers-why.html

Explain much of what you all make points in.

What people don't realize is, we have always worked all 3 type. They just give them a fancy name now.

warm ups sets, power sets, working sets

I look at logs on here a lot and almost every person on here hit all 3 fiber types in every workout. But do they full understand why it helps, or are they just doing what they read helps and don't full understand the reasons why it helps. If my car runs better on one gas vrs another, personal I'd kind of like to know why.

There is workout systems that just brake it down to weeks at a time rather than every workout.

Everyone has a fiber dominance thats why there are so many different workout styles that have documented proof they work. ;)

This is a great post, Rich. I'm going to rip it apart and make it a sig. ;)

BendtheBar 06-25-2011 01:39 PM

I know about hypertrophy types but don't care. It's not as important as progression.

Beginners and intermediates should focus on progression in reasonable rep ranges (my opinion 5-12 reps for most (not all) exercises). These rep ranges will be different based on the exercise, bodypart, etc. Beginners and intermediates should not do an excessive amount of low rep work until they know their bodies and have established some degree of proficiency (form and results).

The overriding determining factors in success are persistence, progression, proper food, and a good exercise selection and reasonable training approach. These factors will bring up strength and muscle and establish a sturdy base.

After this point, when you become a late intermediate to advanced trainee, your lifting, rep ranges, etc., will be based on YOUR body. Simply stated, if you aren't building a program around your specific needs, you are still a beginner to intermediate and should focus on the bolded aspects above.

To answer your question Swoleramon...When anything else is handed to be beginners and intermediates that is elevated about what I have stated, it is misguided. You don't, and probably never will need to ever apply or worry about hypertrophy types. Ever.

Advanced lifters with weaknesses, be they powerlifters or bodybuilders, will approach these weaknesses based on specific needs and body feedback. They will rarely solve these weaknesses by resorting to a different type of rep ranges for a specific type of hypertrophy. Why? Because they have probably just spent 10-15 years working in every range under the sun anyway.

More than this, different types of exercises have different "better" rep ranges that work for them. By this I mean isolation lifts don't work well at 80%+ near maximal weight and low reps. Isolations lifts are general not natural movements to the body. Compound lifts work better for a wide range of reps.

Machines are almost always unique. Machines have different leverage points and feels. Some bodyparts work better on machines for strength/power style lifts. Some do not. Some machines have odd designs which make low rep training awkward. Some, like Hammer presses, make the liftoff on presses hard, but the reps easier.

Some bodyparts respond better to higher reps. Some to lower reps. I know some guys, like John Christy, who preach low rep calf training and have made great gains. I see some people who use 50 rep calf sets and believe they work.

Pigeon holing rep ranges doesn't work. There are far too many variables...movement types, trainee experience level, bodypart needs and even weight.

This doesn't mean experienced lifters shouldn't try new things. Obvious this isn't the case. The opposite leads to progress.

For years I worked with a multitude of back exercises and rep ranges, but my back sucked. It wasn't a rep range that fixed this, but rather heavy deadlifts. Not only did deadlifts give me traps, but they also allowed me to bump my dumbbell rows from 120's to 220's, and my strict barbell rows to 315 for reps.

The point here is that the solution to weaknesses is rarely as simple as moving from 4-6 reps to 8-12 or something like this, simply because 99% of experienced lifters have already worked exercises in all these ranges for years.

Ride progression with basic compound lifts. If any whatever number of years you find you have a weakness, try new things.

Fazc 06-25-2011 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich Knapp (Post 147949)
What people don't realize is, we have always worked all 3 type. They just give them a fancy name now.

I don't think anyone here can be thought of as "not realizing that". In fact the insinuation is quite the opposite.

Both myself and Spartigus have made the point that although we are aware of these varying types of *hypertrophy* that it is of little relevance to the practicalities of working out. I know Steve has a background in these fields as well and from his post he feels the same.

The original post asked if there is a reason to worry about fiber types and I still contend that there is not, because knowing *why* is irrelevant to knowing *what* to do in the gym.

I really don't mean to be argumentative but I have to speak up when people are being labelled as ignorant of these issues just because they choose not to let it affect the practicalities of what we know through experience works.

glwanabe 07-01-2011 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swoleramon (Post 147778)
Is there any reason to worry about muscle fiber types?

Worry, about them? NO!

Unless you just really like digging into the books, just stick with a basic plan and work hard at it. The basics never fail, if you apply yourself.

The more I learn, the simpler I tend to make my programs.

Whenever possible make whatever you're doing the simplest you cna make it.


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