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-   -   Need Help! New evolution of my routine requires some fine tuning (http://www.muscleandbrawn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6527)

Abaddon 06-11-2011 12:04 PM

Need Help! New evolution of my routine requires some fine tuning
 
SO here is the first draft of a hybrid full body component to my routine:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-k15uaoDYAS...%2BRoutine.jpg

I've made some alterations to my existing routines to accomodate, and everything is on a constant rotation.
This is what the next couple of months is going to look like in terms of my training:

Monday - Arms major Shoulders minor
minus OHP.

Wednesday - Strongman
as above - to start off with I'll be testing my 1RM and doing heavy, heavy bench work now that I have spotters again!

Friday - Legs, Traps and Forearms
as written.

Monday - Back major Shoulders minor
minus lateral pulldowns.

Wednesday - Strongman
minus heavy bench.

Friday - Chest major Shoulders minor
deload.

Monday - Arms major Shoulders minor
minus OHP.

Wednesday - Strongman
as written.

I'm going to try and stick to this plan for as long as possible. But I have a couple of areas I'm iffy about, and would appreciate some input.

For instance, in my Arms routine I do 3 sets of dumbbell forward raises - is this a bad exercise to be adding to all the delt work throughout the rest of the routine? Should I limit the arms routine to purely bicep and triceps stuff?

And of course my SM routine is 100% mine, and so it could be utter shit. Any feedback on that would be great.

BendtheBar 06-11-2011 02:35 PM

I might suggest flip-flopping Monday and Wednesday, and doing the heavy work first, then using the arms day as a lighter day. You want to do some arm work, but I wouldn't overdo it. Focus on things like close grip benches or compound style lifts that hit the triceps hardest. Strong triceps create stronger presses.

Stuff like dumbbell front raises I would drop. The front delts get hit hard on most press movements. If anything, you could do some delt pre-hab/rotator cuff moves.

Arm day might be a good day to add in heavy abs, forearms, or maybe even calves. Stuff that doesn't destroy you, but is helping to build strength.

I don't know much about strongman training itself, so as far as template structure I won't comment much more than this.

Fazc 06-11-2011 06:08 PM

You know Abaddon, i'm not sure if this will be what you want to hear but if you're going to go for the whole weight loss/physique/full body route then go the whole hog. Do the full body, lotsa reps, BB diet and work the excess weight off yourself.

I understand your need to still puruse the strength stuff, I clung on to that for a good long while as well. But eventually when I delved into the physique stuff fully I realised my power lifts didn't suffer and in fact my Bench increased. When I went back to the power stuff my lifts increased and I was no beginner either, I had competed for years and at the national level too.

When you've finished and you're in the kind of shape you'd like to be in, then go ahead and return to the strength stuff full hog and work the hell out of that as well. This mixing of two approaches it just doesn't work in my opinion.

But y'know YMMV.

Abaddon 06-11-2011 07:15 PM

Steve - thanks for the tuning advice. I was worried about their being too much delt work overall. I will look into moving my trap and forearm work over from the Legs template to arms day, and perhaps beefing up my leg work generally, since I'll have the time.

Fazc, I respectfully disagree. I am if anything unconventional in my style, and want to experience this SM training just once a week for a few months before I commit to any significant changes to my weekly training schedule.

Too many pies? Perhaps. But I have more than enough fingers. I could, if I wanted to, add a bag work/cardio day to the week, to address the weight loss aspect.

Spartigus 06-11-2011 11:58 PM

I dont know a whole lot about SM training. But that routine does look like a whole lot of fun :D.

I have heard hitting the tires with a sledge hammer is meant to be pretty good training as well?

Fazc 06-12-2011 01:16 AM

Abaddon, not a problem and I wish you good luck either way!

However as a point of conversation while we're here, I think the single biggest mistake made by intermediate trainees is trying to do too much at once. When we were beginners the training was relatively simple, assuming we stumbled across the right lifting material we trained with one goal in mind which was to get stronger and we ate/rested to support that. Even if our goals were a little confused at that point, the magic of beginner gains carried us through. Those that were successful moved out of beginner status and spent less time on beginner routines than did their peers.

In the intermediate phase is where trainees first start making major mistakes. By definition an intermediate hasn't chosen their speciality yet, they may be strong relative to their peers but in terms of achieving their potential they are still nowhere close. No-one *accidentally* makes Elite in powerlifting for example. So intermediate training is where people are still figuring things out, figuring out what they're good at, what they like doing.

During this *buffet* of options (hey i'm dieting, it's on the mind) where people are allowed to pick numerous goals here they begin to make the first error in their training. There are many goals in training, to lose weight, to gain weight, to really spend some time bringing up a lagging lift, you get the idea. However they fall into two main camps:

1) Building: This could involve strength cycles, bringing up lagging lifts, a delve into a sport you may pursue. Even competition could occur as early as this point.
2) Reducing: Weight reducing cycles, pre-season casual bodybuilding.

Generally speaking goals which belong in the first camp are not compatible with goals that belong in the second camp. On a slight tangent, take a brief flick through some steroid forums and most users will caution against attempting to do both at once even while using some pretty heavy cycles. You don't have your beginner gains to fall back on and even with heavy assistance it isn't optimal by far.

So there you go, that's my take on some of the issues faced by the intermediate.

Abaddon 06-12-2011 02:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spartigus (Post 144001)
I dont know a whole lot about SM training. But that routine does look like a whole lot of fun :D.

I have heard hitting the tires with a sledge hammer is meant to be pretty good training as well?

That's another one I want to try in the coming weeks! Good suggestion Spart.

Abaddon 06-12-2011 02:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fazc (Post 144005)
Abaddon, not a problem and I wish you good luck either way!

However as a point of conversation while we're here, I think the single biggest mistake made by intermediate trainees is trying to do too much at once. When we were beginners the training was relatively simple, assuming we stumbled across the right lifting material we trained with one goal in mind which was to get stronger and we ate/rested to support that. Even if our goals were a little confused at that point, the magic of beginner gains carried us through. Those that were successful moved out of beginner status and spent less time on beginner routines than did their peers.

In the intermediate phase is where trainees first start making major mistakes. By definition an intermediate hasn't chosen their speciality yet, they may be strong relative to their peers but in terms of achieving their potential they are still nowhere close. No-one *accidentally* makes Elite in powerlifting for example. So intermediate training is where people are still figuring things out, figuring out what they're good at, what they like doing.

Thanks for the amplification Fazc - I could not agree with you more concerning your above comments. And I must make the caveat that SM training for me, right now, is not at all about competitive numbers. I know I'm not going to get to that kind of level training SM only one day per week. I also know that I'm not going to handle a full-on SM style training regimen right now either. It's logical to me at this stage to take things slowly and get a handle on all the various aptitudes of SM at a rate that is comfortable for me.

I'd like to dispel the notion that I am an intermediate trainer. I still consider myself a beginner. Most especially when it comes to SM, obviously, but on the whole I am still a beginner with better than average genetics and about 3 years of muscle memory (now marbled with 8 years of laziness and gluttony) this is what's allowing me to lift heavier than your average joe of similar build at 14 months of mostly 3 day a week training.

At least, most would consider what I do to be half-assed training. I was reading a log today, and the OP was averaging 30 sets per workout, and was young and lean enough for me to start wondering what exactly they were trying to achieve with that sort of punishment, and if they'd ever heard of cortisol levels etc... I'm no expert, but I do wonder sometimes where these 30 set, high rep, high intensity routines come from.

And then I slap my face; BB.com.

What I do know is that training 3 days a week brings me consistent gains - but using the template as presently constructed is not as intense as it should be. If anything, I should try and get on to a 4 day per week regimen, so I can hit each body part more frequently.

This isn't a traditional approach, I get that. But it's what I want to do. And so long as I'm not risking injury, I am progressing in weight/reps and I'm enjoying myself, I can't see there being a problem.

Abaddon 06-12-2011 08:42 AM

Here's how it looks now
 
(Taken from my log)
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/--bVAOkoeMG...26%2BTraps.jpghttp://3.bp.blogspot.com/-_77fUaPocb.../Strongman.jpghttp://1.bp.blogspot.com/-6vnkIxdSr7...s1600/Legs.jpghttp://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Qu0xgJ7nKq...st%2Bmajor.jpghttp://3.bp.blogspot.com/-amY69wYaIN...ck%2Bmajor.jpg

Here's what I intend to do:
1. Scrap the 4th set for any exercises on Chest, Back or Arms day if required (according to how beaten up I am from SM)
2. Train at least 3 days per week, and ideally 4.
3. Follow this scheme on a rotational basis.
4. Add more SM exercises as I progress.

Q: Is DB upright rows to chest also too much on Chest day?

Oh, and I swapped the Tyre flip and stairs to earlier in the Strongman routine. I have no idea why I thought the heaviest movements should be done last... sounds like a built-in excuse to puss out.

Wlfdg 06-12-2011 08:45 AM

Abaddon, Are you doing a body part split with strongman training for conditioning?


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