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-   -   Squats and Deadlifts to failure (http://www.muscleandbrawn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=554)

BendtheBar 08-22-2009 11:30 AM

Squats and Deadlifts to failure
 
Have you ever squatted or deadlifted to failure? What was it like? And should trainees be doing these exercises to failure?

I have never done either, except for the occasional single rep max miss on squats.

Smirkules 08-22-2009 01:00 PM

Are you freaking crazy? I don't even want to squat or deadlift to begin with. You better get your noodle checked.

RickB 08-22-2009 01:15 PM

After my DL injury, I'll say this. IMO, you shouldn't do more than 50% of 1RM if you are going to go til failure on these! Your form will fade and that is dangerous with too much weight.

And failure on squats can be really dangerous if you are by yourself. I'd say never do with less than 2 or 3 spotters.

bwys61 08-22-2009 01:21 PM

it is ok to squat or deadlift to failure. However, failure also needs to translate to failure of correct form and technique. If you follow that rule, then chance for injury is almost none, and growth is great. Percentages are not important. Form is what is important. you can do heavy weights to failure as long as form is maintained

BendtheBar 08-22-2009 01:33 PM

The reason I brought this up is that I an interviewing someone who trains these exercises to failure.

IMHO, deadlift is hard to maintain proper form - at least for me. I have to make sure I sink my butt down until my shins hit the bar, and push my chest out before every rep. It's hard for me to do that on multiple rep sets, so...I only do singles.

Personally, I would fear training deadlift to failure with 400+ pounds.

swoleramon 08-22-2009 01:33 PM

I get to about 6 reps on each and I'm too tire to try and go to failure.

BRaWNy 08-23-2009 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MuscleandBrawn (Post 3436)
The reason I brought this up is that I an interviewing someone who trains these exercises to failure.

IMHO, deadlift is hard to maintain proper form - at least for me. I have to make sure I sink my butt down until my shins hit the bar, and push my chest out before every rep. It's hard for me to do that on multiple rep sets, so...I only do singles.

Personally, I would fear training deadlift to failure with 400+ pounds.

I agree and I like to add, that proper form and technique tends to be lost even without failure, just from fatigue and when the reps are to high, especially for deadlifts.
Personally my self, I don't go above 3 reps at the main sets, either at straights sets or either at part of sets (mini sets) if it's a cluster set, rest-pause or a bulldozer set etc.
With Squats it's Ok to go sometimes to higher reps

I think for these kind of exercises (the big exercises and exercises with bigger range of movement, see deads, squats, Goodmornings, power cleans etc) the best way to train is to have heavy loads and intensity, but with fatigue control, and go short of failure (except the 1RM attempts).
And if you have progress, you don't have to worry for anything.

On the other side, with the other exercises (not the big ones and these with shorter range of movement, like shrugs, curls etc), I think someone can go to failure and have sets with more fatigue, and of course more reps.
But training with fatigue control on these is also a good way to train.

BendtheBar 08-23-2009 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BRaWNy (Post 3463)
I agree and I like to add, that proper form and technique tends to be lost even without failure, just from fatigue and when the reps are to high, especially for deadlifts.
Personally my self, I don't go above 3 reps at the main sets, either at straights sets or either at part of sets (mini sets) if it's a cluster set, rest-pause or a bulldozer set etc.
With Squats it's Ok to go sometimes to higher reps

I think for these kind of exercises (the big exercises and exercises with bigger range of movement, see deads, squats, Goodmornings, power cleans etc) the best way to train is to have heavy loads and intensity, but with fatigue control, and go short of failure (except the 1RM attempts).
And if you have progress, you don't have to worry for anything.

On the other side, with the other exercises (not the big ones and these with shorter range of movement, like shrugs, curls etc), I think someone can go to failure and have sets with more fatigue, and of course more reps.
But training with fatigue control on these is also a good way to train.

You touch on a good point...fatigue leading to slight worsening of form. I especially notice this in deadlifts. I'm not implying that everyone has this same problem, but I do.

I just do not like doing more then singles at 85%+ 1RM. And from 70-85% 1RM, about 3 reps is my max.

I did a Westside template a while back, and worked up in 3's. My back really took a beating...I think from worsening form on reps.

And I also agree with you about big exercises and big weights...the rep work is always plenty good enough without approaching failure. 3 good set of squats in the 4-8 rep range and I am beat. And 5-10 deadlift singles gives me plenty of upper back soreness the next day. I couldn't even begin to think about training to failure on these exercises.

Smirkules 08-24-2009 06:13 AM

It's hard enough to get proper form on deadlift for one rep.

nighttrain 08-24-2009 07:01 AM

^^ AGREED... failure is not a good idea on big lifts, because i can't maintain proper form...


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