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Old 01-05-2011, 05:39 PM   #1
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Default HLM training results

Hi there,

As mentioned i did a run with the heavy light medium system. i want to give a short overview of the results till now cause i also promised so to bend the bar :

Diet : I am 83kg and 17BF 2000kcals non training days 3000kcals training days. week ends (sat,sun) off.(recomp)

Programm:
H L M 2x the week whole body.
Sets are straight sets. same weight for all sets. In the LAST set of each exercise there is no rep left in the tank.

Heavy: 3x3-5 reps 4 min rest
Light: 2x15-20 reps 1 min rest
Medium: 3x8-10 reps 2 min rest.


Duration now: 3 rotations (3xh 3xl 3xM)

Exercises: (same order each time)

squat (linear programming)
bench
lat pulldown to chest
dumbbell shoulder press
cabel row wide grip pronated
hyperextensions (1x15)
crunch (1x10-15)

The beginning and last weights (after 3 weeks) for the different rep ranges and exercises:

bench:
H: from 85x3x3 to 85x3x5
L: from 55x2x15 to 57,5x2x15
M: from 70x3x8 to 70x3x10

LAt pulldown to chest:
H: from 67,5x3x4 to 70x3x3
L: from 40x2x15 to 45x2x13
M: from 55x3x8 to 55x3x10

Shoulder dumbbell press:
H:30x3x3 to 30x3x5
L: 15x2x15 to 17,5x2x15
M:22,5x3x8 to 22x5x3x10

cabel row wide grip:
H:52,5x3x3 to 52x5x3x5
L: from 35x2x15 to 37,5x2x15
M: from 45x3x8 to 45x3x10

Well ok, but i must admit that the strength increase is really hard. I really have to concentrate on the reps to get my Prs.

In my last programm i went to near failure on each set-i got damn strong but much too fast:5kg more each session in each set( !) was possible,but so i burned out already in the 3rd week and overreached badly.

In this programm now the strength increases are quite small and hard to achieve. (IME). perhaps more workload/intensity is needed to push adaptions more?

Any advice for further is appreciated!

flo
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Old 01-05-2011, 06:19 PM   #2
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Hi Flow,

One thing I will say is that it took me quite a number of months to make the switch over to a fullbody. I ran splits for 2 decades and my body wasn't use to how taxing a fullbody workout was. The first month I ran one I wanted to quite and never do them again. Finally, now, after a few months in my strength is starting to get into a groove. I can't say this will happen for you, but I do think things will improve as your body adapts.

It might take months for your body to adapt to the specific demands of a fullbody. A few years ago I ran a rest-pause style training and had very slow gains for 3-4 weeks, and then my gains started to rocket.

I personally feel a rep increase per week is a good pace. In 3 weeks your bench went up 2 reps which I consider solid progress. I know it's not what you had hoped for, but I think it's good. Multiply that by 17 times (for a year) and that's 34 reps, which will equate to a 50-75 pound increase.

Another point I would like to make is that 2000 cals isn't much, so for you to make strength gains on an average of ~ 2500 cals per days during the week is good. Did you monitor what you were eating on the weekends at all? And how has your weight been on this eating approach?

All in all I think you're doing good. I will be curious how your body adapts in the coming 2 months.
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Old 01-05-2011, 08:29 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BendtheBar View Post
Hi Flow,

One thing I will say is that it took me quite a number of months to make the switch over to a fullbody. I ran splits for 2 decades and my body wasn't use to how taxing a fullbody workout was. The first month I ran one I wanted to quite and never do them again. Finally, now, after a few months in my strength is starting to get into a groove. I can't say this will happen for you, but I do think things will improve as your body adapts.

It might take months for your body to adapt to the specific demands of a fullbody. A few years ago I ran a rest-pause style training and had very slow gains for 3-4 weeks, and then my gains started to rocket.

I personally feel a rep increase per week is a good pace. In 3 weeks your bench went up 2 reps which I consider solid progress. I know it's not what you had hoped for, but I think it's good. Multiply that by 17 times (for a year) and that's 34 reps, which will equate to a 50-75 pound increase.

Another point I would like to make is that 2000 cals isn't much, so for you to make strength gains on an average of ~ 2500 cals per days during the week is good. Did you monitor what you were eating on the weekends at all? And how has your weight been on this eating approach?

All in all I think you're doing good. I will be curious how your body adapts in the coming 2 months.
Thank you very much for your fast repy!

Regarding the HLM training- Your points are valid but I train full body quite a while now. the first time i tried it more than 1 year ago,this was the time i reached 98,5kg but 23BF.
then i cutted down and played around with the whole body system but the template i listed above remained the same.
Sure the point with kcals is existing. As mentioned i cutted down to my current weight but lost mass and strength too,i think i was too fast regarding the reduction (i lost 16kg in 3 months).
Thats the caveat i have right now and i try going for recomp. thats why i have 2000 on non training days and 3000ckals on training days.my weight stays stable now since one month or more.

Ok, so you think the slow progression (IME) is not because of too infrequent training or too less volume/intensity?

Last edited by flow; 01-05-2011 at 08:32 PM.
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Old 01-07-2011, 11:54 AM   #4
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adding to my post i think that perhaps the load is bit too less. cause the prs are really difficult to achive and i donīt feel overtrained or overreached at all.

what u think of this idea to increase the load a bit: remain the volume but increase the intensity:

H: 3x3-5 to 4x2-4
M:3x8-10 to 4x6-8
L:2x15 to 3x10-12

Ohter guys with HLM system out there?
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Old 01-07-2011, 12:05 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flow View Post
Sure the point with kcals is existing. As mentioned i cutted down to my current weight but lost mass and strength too,i think i was too fast regarding the reduction (i lost 16kg in 3 months).
I lost weight that rapidly once before and dropped quite a bit of muscle, as I;m sure you can imagine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by flow View Post
Ok, so you think the slow progression (IME) is not because of too infrequent training or too less volume/intensity?
I'm not convinced of it being the cause after only 3 weeks. I also don't consider any consistent progression to be slow.

My personal goal is to gain a rep on a lift 3 out of 4 weeks each month. This has served me well over the years, and took me from a small-boned young man into a fairly strong adult.

Also, sometime strength gains are more than a muscle strength issue. Sometimes your connective tissue needs to get stronger, sometimes your stabilizer muscles, and sometimes your overall conditioning needs to improve - as can be the case with a fullbody approach.

Casey Butt, who is the modern expert on fullbody approaches, has said many times that the transition to a fullbody can take a while, and that the CNS (central nervous system) needs some time to adapt to the specific demands.

I've experience firsthand CNS shutdown on many occasions, and now realize that it can have a big impact on strength gains. So my point is this - give a fullbody 2-3 months at minimum. In a perfect world I would like to see every give it a 4-6 month chance so that they can adapt, and allow their CNS and conditioning to catch up to the specific demands.

I don't want to pressure you to stay on this style of training. There are other approaches I like, such as John Christy's A/B split, and upper-lower splits. But I do think you are making good progress, and that the jury is still out...
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Old 01-11-2011, 01:36 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BendtheBar View Post
I lost weight that rapidly once before and dropped quite a bit of muscle, as I;m sure you can imagine.



I'm not convinced of it being the cause after only 3 weeks. I also don't consider any consistent progression to be slow.

My personal goal is to gain a rep on a lift 3 out of 4 weeks each month. This has served me well over the years, and took me from a small-boned young man into a fairly strong adult.

Also, sometime strength gains are more than a muscle strength issue. Sometimes your connective tissue needs to get stronger, sometimes your stabilizer muscles, and sometimes your overall conditioning needs to improve - as can be the case with a fullbody approach.

Casey Butt, who is the modern expert on fullbody approaches, has said many times that the transition to a fullbody can take a while, and that the CNS (central nervous system) needs some time to adapt to the specific demands.

I've experience firsthand CNS shutdown on many occasions, and now realize that it can have a big impact on strength gains. So my point is this - give a fullbody 2-3 months at minimum. In a perfect world I would like to see every give it a 4-6 month chance so that they can adapt, and allow their CNS and conditioning to catch up to the specific demands.

I don't want to pressure you to stay on this style of training. There are other approaches I like, such as John Christy's A/B split, and upper-lower splits. But I do think you are making good progress, and that the jury is still out...
thank you for your thoughts and comments.

I like this style of training,so the "pressure" is on my side

interesting, last week i bumped up the weights on the 2x15 days, and it seems that this workload increased adaption again.
On the following M day,I was able to bench 75kg3x8 compared to 70 3x10 last week. that makes me damn happy.

I thought of remaining the programm as u have recommended, if i stall i would DELOA'D the volume and raise the intensity (intensification phase) so one ramped up heavy set on each of the H M L days.

If then i run out, i will cut the loads by 50% and deload for 2 weeks.

then start over with straight sets.

think thats quite sound.
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Old 01-12-2011, 03:30 PM   #7
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Sounds good Flow. Best of luck with your training.
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Old 01-12-2011, 07:36 PM   #8
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thank you very much.
i will report back
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