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Old 12-26-2010, 10:17 PM   #21
ILoveLifting
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First and foremost, i train for my health. second, i like being a bad SOB and lastly, for the looks. Having said this, it's entirely inconceivable that someone would jeopardize their health and longevity by using drugs for something as shallow as big muscles or big juiced up numbers.

Ultimately, we should be training for our health...
I never new good health = steroids.
Contradicting?
I think so.
Also, I can not bring myself to admire stupidity.

Now if the use of steroids is to level a professional playing field...
Different story entirely.

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Old 12-26-2010, 10:22 PM   #22
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^this
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Old 12-26-2010, 10:48 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by ILoveLifting View Post

Ultimately, we should be training for our health...
I never new good health = steroids.
I agree with you - lifting should be a healthy activity, and should be about health in some form. I would also like to point out an important point.

There is a big range of steroid and drug users in the lifting realm. Some bodybuilders, powerlifters and recreational lifters use a very smart, mild, and healthy approach to steroid use. I know this sounds counterintuitive, but I think we all can agree that there is strong evidence that mild hormone therapy is actually good for the body. At least it appears to be from the research I've done.

On the other hand, some lifters are a chemical factory.

Believe it or not there are many bodybuilders that don't abuse AAS (steroids) and keep to very safe dosages. Some can't afford too, and some want to remain as healthy as possible.

We were having a discussion earlier in the week about some competitive bodybuilders using only testosterone.

Again, I am not trying to wave the flag for steroid use. I merely wish to differentiate between destructive abuse and very mild use. They are often lumped together as equally dangerous.

Heavy drug use transcends simple steroids. It often involves a cocktail of non-steroids including (but not limited to) HGH, PCT drugs (clomid, nolva, etc.), orals, thyroid meds, clenbuterol, HCG and more than a few drugs I am missing because I am tired.

The difference in scale can be staggering.
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Old 12-27-2010, 09:47 AM   #24
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I know a dude who knows a dude and dude takes a minimal amount of testosterone only and is pretty healthy. Just saying.
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Old 12-27-2010, 07:50 PM   #25
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#1. no matter what route any man has taken to get somewhere if he has used hard work to get there it is admirable end of story IMO. i don't know how that can be argued.
I think it can. Some roads we just can't respect.

Schwarzenegger in his Education of a Bodybuilder tells us that when he first went to Munich, there were a lot of pudgy older homosexuals lurking around gyms trying to score the buff young guys, and that Arnie himself was offered accommodation and all the food he wanted, provided he put out. As he was not exactly flush with cash at the time, he seriously considered it, but then rejected it as, he said, he wanted to succeed entirely from his own efforts, without outside help.

He notes that not everyone else did this, and he understood it. Most of us would, I think, not admire someone who sold their body for sex in order to advance in their chosen profession, especially when they're selling it to a gender they're not attracted to.

If we can condemn gay prostitution used to succeed at bodybuilding, I do not see why we cannot condemn anabolic steroids. Both are things where the person mainly risks harm only to themselves, and where the person's success is not entirely due to their own efforts, but to something which most of us would consider nasty, sordid and shameful.

If nothing else, you can say of steroids, prostitution and so on that the person ought to see how far they can go without them before resorting to them. Most of us are very very far from achieving our natural potential in physique development, strength and fitness. Hard work, as BendtheBar said. Prostitution is hard work, too, but I find it hard to admire much; I don't feel contempt, but I don't feel admiration, either. I agree that people should work hard. I just think they should try honest hard work before trying the other stuff.
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Old 12-27-2010, 10:19 PM   #26
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^I agree with the last paragraph.
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Old 12-28-2010, 09:46 AM   #27
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This biggest issue I see from the powerlifting side of AS use is the guys that have been lifting 2-3 years and start using to get their totals up. They don't understand that it takes many years to strengthen tendons, ligaments and attachments to handle the weight they are now lifting on AS (for those who don't know, AS does make muscle bigger/stronger, but not tendons,ligaments etc. that still grow at a normal rate). I personally know a number of guys that fall in this category and they are currently injured or have been in the last few months, some have been injured multiple times.
In my opinion, in the powerlifting world, its not something to use in your first years because you are too anxious to get big numbers, this will only shorten your powerlifting career. Instead, get a good many years base of lifting heavy, and when you have hit a wall and cant make gains, then consider AS.
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Old 12-28-2010, 11:09 AM   #28
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Good point. No one every talks about tendon and ligament strength. I would bet money that this is the number one AAS related injury, meaning lifters getting hurt because they can lift more than their connective tissue can handle.
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Old 12-28-2010, 11:18 AM   #29
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If we can condemn gay prostitution used to succeed at bodybuilding, I do not see why we cannot condemn anabolic steroids..
I would add that I have worked in the female bodybuilding realm, and it opened my eyes to the connections between bodybuilding and the porn industry. (Not just females, of course).

I think many would be surprised to find that porn and steroid use at the highly competitive end of bodybuilding are bedfellows, for men and especially for women. (There are fewer muscular women, but the niche is also small. A higher percentage of muscular women get involved)

Again, I am not speculating here. I worked in that realm, for a company that supported female bodybuilding, but also had it's hand in the male and female porn industry. I didn't realize how deep that connection was until I entered the fray, and it was not my cup of tea so I got out.
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Old 12-28-2010, 11:39 AM   #30
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im surrounded by bodybuilders...literally, everyday. some natural, some juiced. its funny how there is so much back and forth on these forums, but when we're all in a gym together, we all bullshit, back each other up, etc. we dont go hating on this dude for juicing or talking crap about this natty guy who looks like he could be using but is hiding it. we all put in hard work, the thing people need to realize is that not everyone has the same goal you have in your head. you wanna look healthy? cool, you wanna look like a powerlifter? awesome go get it..you wanna look like a natural bb'er? fawkyeah, you wanna be a monster? get it done.

and thats that ..period. like jslep said...different roads to different goals. i dont hate on anyone who busts ass, especially if they remain humble and approachable.
my real concern is that AAS is slipping into natural events, and if you think im lying look at some of the "natural" pros. its not hard to cheat a piss test... but i will refrain from judging until i know for sure.
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