Muscle and Brawn Forums
 

Go Back   Muscle and Brawn Forums > Training > Muscle Building and Bodybuilding
Mark Forums Read
Register Articles Members List Search Today's Posts

Notices

Muscle Building and Bodybuilding Topics related to muscle building, bodybuilding, including training and fullbody workouts. If you are looking for great advice on gaining muscle this forum is for you.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 09-28-2010, 04:32 PM   #11
dmaipa
Living in the Shadows
Max Brawn
Points: 12,684, Level: 73 Points: 12,684, Level: 73 Points: 12,684, Level: 73
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
 
dmaipa's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: New York..
Posts: 3,076
Training Type: Bodybuilding
Fav Supp: Food
Reputation: 48162
dmaipa is a lifting machinedmaipa is a lifting machinedmaipa is a lifting machinedmaipa is a lifting machinedmaipa is a lifting machinedmaipa is a lifting machinedmaipa is a lifting machinedmaipa is a lifting machinedmaipa is a lifting machinedmaipa is a lifting machinedmaipa is a lifting machine
Default

I would like to hear what Achilles thinks being a man of science
dmaipa is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 09-28-2010, 04:45 PM   #12
BendtheBar
Bearded Beast of Duloc
Max Brawn
Points: 1,554,481, Level: 100 Points: 1,554,481, Level: 100 Points: 1,554,481, Level: 100
Activity: 49% Activity: 49% Activity: 49%
 
BendtheBar's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 80,875
Training Exp: 20+ years
Training Type: Powerbuilding
Fav Exercise: Deadlift
Fav Supp: Butter
Reputation: 2581830
BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RickB View Post
But there is a point you can't go beyond if you are lifting "natural".
Sure, there is a point where gains dry up. I've been there for years. That's why I've turned more towards powerlifting as of late.

There's really no point in killing yourself once the gains dry up. I've had this discussion with Casey Butt and company. But I like the challenge, and my body feels good, so on I go...

Heck, I am one of the few guys that trumpets natural potential. I get beat up over it quite often. I pissed off a bodybuilder over it. He claimed 20" arms and 215 ripped as a natty before I called him on it and he deleted the thread. I get hated on frequently for standing up for reality.

My larger point was that guys like Zane, Arnold and Costa made the move after they made most of their gains. They made most of their gains on simple moves, using basic progression. Arnold killed himself with volume, but Zane was a bit more wise. Zane pulled back.

Pulling back is acceptable once you reach your "gains limit". My problem is that far too many young guys will read into this and think they never have to progress, only focus on the mind muscle connection, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RickB View Post
^^ But on the deadlifts, they were from the knees up OR heavy rows. And incline bench was his primary bench routine...which as we all know most can't incline what you can flat bench.
You're splitting hairs Rick. Rack deads allow you to use more weight. And inclines are still a beefy lift.

I asked that as a follow up question so that readers wouldn't misconstrue Frank's comment on the previous question as only use isolations. It's not about the big 3, it's about progression. Beginners and intermediates need to progress. Advanced lifters know their bodies, and if they are sane, realize that there are natural limits.

But shocker of shocker, most naturals..even guys who are 40+ and haven't gained an once in 10 years, still believe they can get that 5 to 10 pound growth spurt down the road if they keep pushing.

I will also add that there are armies of gym rats who aren't progressing, and who don't eat enough, and they aren't gaining. This indicates that at some point you do need to bulk in some form or fashion, and you do need to lift more weight as some point. I am not talking slob bulking, but man if you're 18, take advantage of your metabolism.

Guys like us may well be easy gainers. But I know that for every guy like us, there are dozens upon dozens who aren't gaining. I think they could definitely benefit from fewer weekly sessions, more progression and more food.

Finally, I will add that the guys on this forum train heavy and eat good, and have some darn impressive physiques. There are other boards I frequently where beginners focus on the wrong sort of training (too much bodybuilding mag training), and strict eating, and they view gaining size as the mystery of the ages. I have a foot in both these worlds each day, and I wish one could learn a bit from the other.
__________________
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Destroy That Which Destroys You

"Let bravery be thy choice, but not bravado."



Last edited by BendtheBar; 09-28-2010 at 05:26 PM.
BendtheBar is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2010, 05:01 PM   #13
dmaipa
Living in the Shadows
Max Brawn
Points: 12,684, Level: 73 Points: 12,684, Level: 73 Points: 12,684, Level: 73
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
 
dmaipa's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: New York..
Posts: 3,076
Training Type: Bodybuilding
Fav Supp: Food
Reputation: 48162
dmaipa is a lifting machinedmaipa is a lifting machinedmaipa is a lifting machinedmaipa is a lifting machinedmaipa is a lifting machinedmaipa is a lifting machinedmaipa is a lifting machinedmaipa is a lifting machinedmaipa is a lifting machinedmaipa is a lifting machinedmaipa is a lifting machine
Default

I agree with btb. It is all about progression, and not all about the big 3. Also what we all have to realize is that no matter how you train, for the pump or not. Your muscle is not going to grow without the right diet per individual.
dmaipa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2010, 05:06 PM   #14
Lifter
Junior Member
Points: 2,443, Level: 29 Points: 2,443, Level: 29 Points: 2,443, Level: 29
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
 
Lifter's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 8
Reputation: 10
Lifter is off to a bad start
Default

Great interview! Regarding the pump...I have always downplayed it, though when I last interacted with Stuart McRobert, who I used to write for, he believed a back down set was quite viable (12 reps following a heavy 6 rep set for example). Being better suited to low reps, being fast-twitch muscle fibred, I find them tedious. But recently I have taken another look at them, thanks to a friend of mine who's gaining quite well on Matrix training.

Despite purchasing Dr. Laura's book back in 1993, I always poo-poo'd them as another novelty. So I eventually tried them on bb curls (5 full, 5 top to 1/2 way, 5 1/2 way to bottom, 5 full) and was shocked what it did on my poor bis! Not only after the set, but the remainder of the day my arms were next to useless, the discomfort so distressing I literally felt like ripping my biceps out!! Never have I experienced that in the 3+ decades I've lifted.

I now have a renewed appreciation of their merit, and am enjoying playing around with them, even their base; 21's. The discomfort may be excruiating, but the pump and fullness more than makes up for it. Besides, what hardcore bodybuilder doesn't enjoy the rush and fix of a good pump?
__________________
Lifter... no-one trains harder!
Lifter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2010, 05:11 PM   #15
BendtheBar
Bearded Beast of Duloc
Max Brawn
Points: 1,554,481, Level: 100 Points: 1,554,481, Level: 100 Points: 1,554,481, Level: 100
Activity: 49% Activity: 49% Activity: 49%
 
BendtheBar's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 80,875
Training Exp: 20+ years
Training Type: Powerbuilding
Fav Exercise: Deadlift
Fav Supp: Butter
Reputation: 2581830
BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmaipa View Post
Your muscle is not going to grow without the right diet per individual.
^ Exactly.

And if you undereat, you are restricting yourself. I don't care how someone eats, as long as they find a way to gain.

I made insane gains in my first 18 months lifting like a fool and eating everything not tied down. I see guys every day undereating and underlifting, doing 52 sets of biceps each week and eating 2000 cals of chicken breasts. Many of these guys are so afraid of gaining one ounce of fat that they won't eat properly.

I still firmly believe the best way to fast gains is heavy ass weight and a heavy ass plate. What does that mean for Average Joe Trainee? He has to learn his own body and find that out.
__________________
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Destroy That Which Destroys You

"Let bravery be thy choice, but not bravado."


BendtheBar is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2010, 10:36 PM   #16
Kevsworld
Member
Brawn
Points: 2,611, Level: 31 Points: 2,611, Level: 31 Points: 2,611, Level: 31
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
 
Kevsworld's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Manila, Philippines
Posts: 68
Training Exp: 20+
Training Type: Powerbuilding
Fav Exercise: Squat
Fav Supp: Creatine Mono, Protein
Reputation: 662
Kevsworld has made some quality postsKevsworld has made some quality postsKevsworld has made some quality postsKevsworld has made some quality postsKevsworld has made some quality postsKevsworld has made some quality posts
Default

I loved that interview. I think Zane is one of the few Mr O's with a look that many guys would like to achieve.
__________________
Kevin
http://MuscleReview.net
Kevsworld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2010, 08:19 AM   #17
BendtheBar
Bearded Beast of Duloc
Max Brawn
Points: 1,554,481, Level: 100 Points: 1,554,481, Level: 100 Points: 1,554,481, Level: 100
Activity: 49% Activity: 49% Activity: 49%
 
BendtheBar's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 80,875
Training Exp: 20+ years
Training Type: Powerbuilding
Fav Exercise: Deadlift
Fav Supp: Butter
Reputation: 2581830
BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!
Default

A quote from Frank, not in the interview. This was at an early age, and I believe pre-bodybuilding.

Quote:
At a bodyweight of 175, I ended up doing a 425 deadlift, 285 bench press and 155 curl. But if they’d had squats in there, I would have been squatting with over 400 because I was always a good squatter.
In his very early years he competed in "odd lift" competitions, which were a pre-powerlifting strength contest. His 400+ pound squat was at a weight of 175, and as a teen. I would wager it was clean as well.
__________________
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Destroy That Which Destroys You

"Let bravery be thy choice, but not bravado."



Last edited by BendtheBar; 09-29-2010 at 08:30 AM.
BendtheBar is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2010, 09:18 AM   #18
rippednmichigan
Social Media Manager/REP
Max Brawn
Points: 22,927, Level: 93 Points: 22,927, Level: 93 Points: 22,927, Level: 93
Activity: 2% Activity: 2% Activity: 2%
 
rippednmichigan's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Michigan
Posts: 8,038
Training Type: Bodybuilding
Fav Supp: EFX K-Otic Orange Ambush
Reputation: 76411
rippednmichigan is a lifting beastrippednmichigan is a lifting beastrippednmichigan is a lifting beastrippednmichigan is a lifting beastrippednmichigan is a lifting beastrippednmichigan is a lifting beastrippednmichigan is a lifting beastrippednmichigan is a lifting beastrippednmichigan is a lifting beastrippednmichigan is a lifting beastrippednmichigan is a lifting beast
Default

Great interview Steve, Frank's physique was/is absolutely amazing!
User owns 3x $30 I\'ll Pump You Up cash User owns 1x $20 I\'ll Pump You Up cash
__________________
Social Media Manager/ Board Rep
Be sure to "LIKE" us on Facebook!!

Pure-Potent-Drug Free

http://allamericanefx.com/

Certified Personal Trainer
Training and Nutrition at
www.flexfitnessandnutrition.com


"Take control and push your limits!"
rippednmichigan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2010, 03:29 PM   #19
Achilles
Senior Member
Brawn
Points: 568, Level: 11 Points: 568, Level: 11 Points: 568, Level: 11
Activity: 56% Activity: 56% Activity: 56%
 
Achilles's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 215
Reputation: 2963
Achilles has made some very good postsAchilles has made some very good postsAchilles has made some very good postsAchilles has made some very good postsAchilles has made some very good postsAchilles has made some very good postsAchilles has made some very good postsAchilles has made some very good postsAchilles has made some very good postsAchilles has made some very good postsAchilles has made some very good posts
Default

Its just as simple as it is. A pump isnt necessary needed to stimulate growth/hypertrophy (myofibrillar). I admit that a pump can be a good indicator of the muscle being worked (from a bodybuilding standpoint) along with that comes the psychological effect which is nice as well.

Progressive tension overload is what we should aim for! Since a optimal pump asks a decrease in load ie high loads close to 1 RM (85% and higer) doesnt provide the same amount of pump as lower percentages (70% and lower). So a trainee has to lower his load to get an optimal pump which leads to a decrease in one of the most important factors in training, overload! Along with that like you guys said a good diet and a solid periodization plan can do wonders.
__________________
There are Two Types of Pain in this World: The Temporary Pain of Discipline, or the Permanent Pain of Regret!

Last edited by Achilles; 09-29-2010 at 05:36 PM.
Achilles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2010, 02:29 PM   #20
BendtheBar
Bearded Beast of Duloc
Max Brawn
Points: 1,554,481, Level: 100 Points: 1,554,481, Level: 100 Points: 1,554,481, Level: 100
Activity: 49% Activity: 49% Activity: 49%
 
BendtheBar's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 80,875
Training Exp: 20+ years
Training Type: Powerbuilding
Fav Exercise: Deadlift
Fav Supp: Butter
Reputation: 2581830
BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!
Default

Frank Zane - Bodybuilder Frank Zane Workout and Nutrition - Pictures - Vaccum Pose - Wallpaper - Leg Blaster

Quote:
Remember when you have minimum time, you can't have maximum effort. Really, if you can rest a little longer, you can put more effort into your workout. When you compromise on time, you minimize the amount of weight you use. The amount of weight you use on an exercise is what makes the muscle bigger. So when I am training for size, I rest longer so that I can use heavier weights. Now, the last month before a show, I'll start training faster, but I won't reduce my poundages. My goal is to get to a poundage the month before and then cut down on the rest periods while maintaining the heavy weight I worked up to while I was resting longer. I donšt increase the weights at this point.
__________________
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Destroy That Which Destroys You

"Let bravery be thy choice, but not bravado."


BendtheBar is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
frank, interview, zane


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Frank Zane versus Mike Mentzer BendtheBar Muscle Building and Bodybuilding 30 10-08-2014 12:24 PM
"Hormones" a song by Frank Zane BendtheBar Muscle Building and Bodybuilding 5 05-21-2011 01:20 PM
Frank Zane BendtheBar Muscle Building and Bodybuilding 21 09-15-2010 06:42 PM
Frank Zane Gallery Iron Gladiator General Board 0 10-02-2009 12:01 AM

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:33 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.