Muscle and Brawn Forums
 

Go Back   Muscle and Brawn Forums > Training > Muscle Building and Bodybuilding
Mark Forums Read
Register Articles Members List Search Today's Posts

Notices

Muscle Building and Bodybuilding Topics related to muscle building, bodybuilding, including training and fullbody workouts. If you are looking for great advice on gaining muscle this forum is for you.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 03-24-2010, 10:01 AM   #1
BendtheBar
Bearded Beast of Duloc
Max Brawn
Points: 1,554,481, Level: 100 Points: 1,554,481, Level: 100 Points: 1,554,481, Level: 100
Activity: 49% Activity: 49% Activity: 49%
 
BendtheBar's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 79,789
Training Exp: 20+ years
Training Type: Powerbuilding
Fav Exercise: Deadlift
Fav Supp: Butter
Reputation: 2583792
BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!
Default Bodybuilding and TRT

Many natural federations use polygraph tests for all the competitors and drug screens for the winners. Obviously, both methods use different standards. I would say that a drug screen is easier to "beat" because a competitor could run a cycle, get off, retain some of the benefits, and still appear normal on the test. (I'm not talking about beating a drug test in the sense that a competitor still has some form of AAS in his system, and he finds a way to cheat.)

But a polygraph...well, if you've used...good luck beating it.

So my question relates to TRT (Testosterone replacement therapy). As most of us know, low testosterone leads to a battery of health issues. And most who take TRT are not doing so looking for - nor receiving muscle/strength gains. The amounts they take are miniscule compared to a bodybuilding cycle, and generally TRT patients at these levels scrape to achieve what would be considered an average testosterone level for a healthy male.

But, if an aging bodybuilder uses TRT for health, knowing that it is a steroid, most likely they will flunk the polygraph.

What are your thoughts on this? Do you consider TRT cheating? Should TRT patients simply compete in non-tested feds? Should TRT patients be allowed to compete in tested feds?
__________________
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Destroy That Which Destroys You

"Let bravery be thy choice, but not bravado."


BendtheBar is online now   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 03-24-2010, 10:10 AM   #2
RickB
Senior Member
Max Brawn
Points: 2,802, Level: 32 Points: 2,802, Level: 32 Points: 2,802, Level: 32
Activity: 4% Activity: 4% Activity: 4%
 
RickB's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: N.E. Texas
Posts: 2,962
Reputation: 350
RickB is off to a good startRickB is off to a good startRickB is off to a good startRickB is off to a good start
Default

It's my opinion that there are many that cheat the natural competitions. I saw it at Matt's competition and there was an Asian guy that was known to compete in untested comps. There were a couple others that just looked "un-natural" in other weight classes.

But this competition stated that you had to be 7yrs removed from any AAS. I wonder how many were?

Matt is the only one I was 100% positive about. I'm sure there were others too, but many can beat the poly and the piss test.

Do I think TRT is cheating? There's a huge gray area imo about that. The normal range according to this Doctor can be 250-800, but for this Doctor it can be 300-950. Some are blessed with more naturally than a recreational PH user. Who knows if it's fair or cheating with TRT. Maybe instead of age/weight classes, then need to go by test level classes LOL!

Did I ramble enough?
RickB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2010, 10:13 AM   #3
nighttrain
Senior Member
Max Brawn
Points: 10,795, Level: 68 Points: 10,795, Level: 68 Points: 10,795, Level: 68
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
 
nighttrain's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Louisville, Ky
Posts: 3,642
Training Exp: 20+
Reputation: 69074
nighttrain is a lifting beastnighttrain is a lifting beastnighttrain is a lifting beastnighttrain is a lifting beastnighttrain is a lifting beastnighttrain is a lifting beastnighttrain is a lifting beastnighttrain is a lifting beastnighttrain is a lifting beastnighttrain is a lifting beastnighttrain is a lifting beast
Default

^^^ i agree rick.......
__________________
Support our Troops
nighttrain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2010, 10:25 AM   #4
BendtheBar
Bearded Beast of Duloc
Max Brawn
Points: 1,554,481, Level: 100 Points: 1,554,481, Level: 100 Points: 1,554,481, Level: 100
Activity: 49% Activity: 49% Activity: 49%
 
BendtheBar's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 79,789
Training Exp: 20+ years
Training Type: Powerbuilding
Fav Exercise: Deadlift
Fav Supp: Butter
Reputation: 2583792
BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RickB View Post
It's my opinion that there are many that cheat the natural competitions. I saw it at Matt's competition and there was an Asian guy that was known to compete in untested comps. There were a couple others that just looked "un-natural" in other weight classes.

But this competition stated that you had to be 7yrs removed from any AAS. I wonder how many were?

Matt is the only one I was 100% positive about. I'm sure there were others too, but many can beat the poly and the piss test.

Do I think TRT is cheating? There's a huge gray area imo about that. The normal range according to this Doctor can be 250-800, but for this Doctor it can be 300-950. Some are blessed with more naturally than a recreational PH user. Who knows if it's fair or cheating with TRT. Maybe instead of age/weight classes, then need to go by test level classes LOL!

Did I ramble enough?
Ramble on.

I've been interviewing natty federation promoters this last month, and have yet to ask this question. I think I should.

My personal opinion is that even though TRT at "normal levels" (not talking all the guys who use it for muscle and strength - and not condemning them for doing so) provides no real strength and size gains, TRT patients shouldn't compete in natty feds. Rules are rules.

Personally, I wouldn't want to risk a ban by failing a polygraph - and if you believe there is a risk, then you shouldn't compete in that fed.

As far as cheating, I think it's a lot easier to cheat the system then many believe.
__________________
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Destroy That Which Destroys You

"Let bravery be thy choice, but not bravado."


BendtheBar is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2010, 10:41 AM   #5
Trevor Lane
I am a VIKING!
Max Brawn
Points: 10,591, Level: 68 Points: 10,591, Level: 68 Points: 10,591, Level: 68
Activity: 13% Activity: 13% Activity: 13%
 
Trevor Lane's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 2,476
Training Exp: A few
Training Type: Wendler 531
Fav Exercise: Deadlift
Fav Supp: T-Bomb II
Reputation: 57912
Trevor Lane is a lifting beastTrevor Lane is a lifting beastTrevor Lane is a lifting beastTrevor Lane is a lifting beastTrevor Lane is a lifting beastTrevor Lane is a lifting beastTrevor Lane is a lifting beastTrevor Lane is a lifting beastTrevor Lane is a lifting beastTrevor Lane is a lifting beastTrevor Lane is a lifting beast
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BendtheBar View Post
Ramble on.

I've been interviewing natty federation promoters this last month, and have yet to ask this question. I think I should.

My personal opinion is that even though TRT at "normal levels" (not talking all the guys who use it for muscle and strength - and not condemning them for doing so) provides no real strength and size gains, TRT patients shouldn't compete in natty feds. Rules are rules.

Personally, I wouldn't want to risk a ban by failing a polygraph - and if you believe there is a risk, then you shouldn't compete in that fed.

As far as cheating, I think it's a lot easier to cheat the system then many believe.
I would say that a person who really believes that what they are taking is OK would pass a poly for something like this. Now if they win and are then tested, they would have a whole new set of problems. Poly's really test a persons honesty in terms of their own beliefs, so it would depend on the questions asked and the subjects beliefs about their actions.
Trevor Lane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2010, 11:01 AM   #6
ehubbard
Raw/Multiply Powerlifter
Max Brawn
Points: 9,852, Level: 66 Points: 9,852, Level: 66 Points: 9,852, Level: 66
Activity: 1% Activity: 1% Activity: 1%
 
ehubbard's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 823
Training Exp: 15
Training Type: Powerlifting
Reputation: 99938
ehubbard is a lifting beastehubbard is a lifting beastehubbard is a lifting beastehubbard is a lifting beastehubbard is a lifting beastehubbard is a lifting beastehubbard is a lifting beastehubbard is a lifting beastehubbard is a lifting beastehubbard is a lifting beastehubbard is a lifting beast
Default

If you are competing in a tested fed and are on TRT, you are violating the spirit of the rules, even if there is an exemption for hormone replacement.

Additionally to that, it doesn't matter whether you suspect or know that other people are using TRT in a tested fed, because you can only control your own actions. Don't use other people's actions to steer your own moral compass.
ehubbard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2010, 03:06 PM   #7
onetiredkris
Senior Member
Max Brawn
Points: 2,770, Level: 32 Points: 2,770, Level: 32 Points: 2,770, Level: 32
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
 
onetiredkris's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: North Hollywood, CA
Posts: 1,381
Reputation: 9751
onetiredkris is a consistent contributoronetiredkris is a consistent contributoronetiredkris is a consistent contributoronetiredkris is a consistent contributoronetiredkris is a consistent contributoronetiredkris is a consistent contributoronetiredkris is a consistent contributoronetiredkris is a consistent contributoronetiredkris is a consistent contributoronetiredkris is a consistent contributoronetiredkris is a consistent contributor
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BendtheBar View Post
My personal opinion is that even though TRT at "normal levels" (not talking all the guys who use it for muscle and strength - and not condemning them for doing so) provides no real strength and size gains, TRT patients shouldn't compete in natty feds. Rules are rules.
I don't know about all that. I dont see how a man with near zero test won't lift more after bringing his levels back up to normal, but yeah he wont be lifting more compared to a different man of equal test levels.

I say at equal numbers test is test, endo or exo. But still trt is a definite gray area.
__________________

-OTK's LOG-
We lift weights and manipulate our diets so that we'll look good naked. Sure, it's healthy too, and we'll probably live a longer and more productive life than the average guy, but mostly it's about the naked thing.

onetiredkris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2010, 03:13 PM   #8
BendtheBar
Bearded Beast of Duloc
Max Brawn
Points: 1,554,481, Level: 100 Points: 1,554,481, Level: 100 Points: 1,554,481, Level: 100
Activity: 49% Activity: 49% Activity: 49%
 
BendtheBar's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 79,789
Training Exp: 20+ years
Training Type: Powerbuilding
Fav Exercise: Deadlift
Fav Supp: Butter
Reputation: 2583792
BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by onetiredkris View Post
I don't know about all that. I dont see how a man with near zero test won't lift more after bringing his levels back up to normal, but yeah he wont be lifting more compared to a different man of equal test levels.

I say at equal numbers test is test, endo or exo. But still trt is a definite gray area.
Local doctors around here put you on 25 mgs of test per week to a max of 200 mgs per month (one injection).
__________________
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Destroy That Which Destroys You

"Let bravery be thy choice, but not bravado."



Last edited by BendtheBar; 03-24-2010 at 03:16 PM.
BendtheBar is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
bodybuilding, trt


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:35 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.