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Old 03-11-2010, 09:14 AM   #11
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Sully explained a bit more:

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On the novice thing that was John Porillo, a big name coach back in the 90's who started that. Vince was all about 15's for the first 3 months, then 12's for three then 10-8-6-15 for three then you could do his 8 x 8 and so on. He said new people needed to learn the movement and perfect it first. Parillo just noticed when he had people start with 8-10 or more the first year it lead to a better foundation later. now Thib was the first to connect the nerve innervation, he got that from Able at a seminar. Thib is also a big Vince fan and if he ever remembers me its because we talked about Vince and how I worked with him once for about 3 hours. Anyway, he is the one who did the actual research into it and it kind of took from there. Now guys like King, Poloquin and Waterburry are saying the same thing, but it really started with Vince in the 60's and 70's and Parillo in the 90's. I think Thib covers it in one of his books, may be the little black book or his hyde book. I have them all, but not on ebook. I'll find more for you, but I use the approach and my novices grow at 2x the rate now then the novices I had even 5 years ago. I now do 3 x week full body, alternating exercises each workout, but only basics and the reps go 15's for the first 10 weeks, the 10's then 7-9's all for 10 weeks, then a varied push/pull split at a variety of reps. If they are gifted I go with the vertical/horizontal/ham/quad four day split. That's it in a nut shell.
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Old 03-11-2010, 12:38 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by BendtheBar View Post
At the core of Sean's statement, he mentions that "nerve innervation" factors require 3 years before a trainee should train with lower than 6 reps. That is the statement that I am most curious about. I've not heard that before. And I'm not sure where he found this research.
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Nerve innervation is a term used to describe the distribution of nerves across the body and to particular areas, along with the supply of nerve impulses.
My take, is that he is a bit ummm nutty. I personally think that for the first few workouts, a beginner should use higher reps, say 3x15-20, but only to get a feel for proper form, then you should crank up the weight. I think we can all agree that if someone only trains with higher reps and less than 80% of their 1rm, their form will look like crap when they start adding weight and get into low reps. Also i know i have done better with lower reps than when i would try higher reps
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Old 03-11-2010, 01:14 PM   #13
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The body definitely goes through some unique phases the first year of training. The first month is a shock period, where soreness can be brutal and form needs to be mastered. I don't see much of a need to go over 8 to 10 reps during this period, as the point is more to grasp form.

When form is reasonable, progression begins. I can see working within the rep ranges of 6 to 12 for compound lifts and 8 to 15 for isolation exercises. The lifter is still learning form, and may still be struggling with lift stability.

At some point, and this time frame varies, when the lifter has made noticeable progress and lift stability is not an issue (stabilizer muscles are much stronger), I think it is ok to work with the 4 to 6 rep range. But this is a case by case basis.

If a young lifter has been squatting for 2 years, and can't do more than 135 pounds for several reps, I don't think that the 4 to 6 rep range is necessarily helpful.

On the other hand, I was squatting 315x4 reps after 6 months of squatting. A lifter that mirrors my progress should be doing some work in the 4 to 6 rep range.

I respect Sean's diligent research on this topic, but I don't like it sliced and diced out as a generalized statement. Lifting is such an individual thing. I don't think a lifter "needs" to go under 6 reps, but if they have a good work ethic and have shown good progress, 5x5 systems are perfectly fine. It's only a rep, after all.

I think we're splitting hairs on some level with this discussion. I assume that the hesitancy to recommend rep ranges under 6 is more a caution against the 1 to 4 rep range when you're still a beginner. And I don't believe that Sean would necessarily consider 6 reps to be the tipping point. If so, do a 5x6. No big whoop.
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Old 03-12-2010, 05:29 PM   #14
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What is Nerve Innervation?

I don't agree with the 3 year rule and don't agree with it. You can't generalize that for everyone.
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