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Muscle Building and Bodybuilding Topics related to muscle building, bodybuilding, including training and fullbody workouts. If you are looking for great advice on gaining muscle this forum is for you.

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Old 03-03-2010, 02:45 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Kpettitt View Post
makes sense... I think if one did proper planning they could utilize there time wisely and get a full body workout in. With out spending 4hours at the gym.
I feel very disconnected with this discussion at times. I know the research behind the benefits of fullbody routines, but I also see so many pro natural bodybuilders who have never used them. So even though I think they are best for a beginner, ultimately many can - and do - grow fine without them.
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Old 03-03-2010, 02:55 PM   #32
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glwanabe's whipped!
YUP! I'm Whipped. Fairly sick, but still trying to get a little bit of work in. Only did a medium intensity session, and that kicked my butt. Got a good sweat going though.

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Old 03-03-2010, 04:19 PM   #33
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Default Full-body training

The big mistake that people make with full body training is jumping into it thinking that they can just take their current workout, and apply it to a wholebody scheme. This is not the case.

You don't get up one day and decide to run a marathon, and just go outside and do it. The same is true for wholebody training.

People comment that they just can't get through an entire session of wholebody training. Of course you can't, today, but train for it, and you will be able to complete a whole body workout.

Once you get into wholebody training, or an A/B split type of scheme you will really appreciate what this type of training can do for you.

Wholebody training is as complex a method of working out, as any split. It requires that you train properly for this event. Wholebody training is not just for beginners. It can be utilized by all levels of barbell sport enthusiast.

To work into a wholebody program, and allow your conditioning time to adapt you need to allow between a month, and three months on buildup, until you can really go full bore with it. It all depends on your current level of conditioning.

There are several threads here on MAB that talked about this approach to working out.

Here are a few links to read through. There's lots of good info out there.

Classic Physique Builder

There are lots of Caseys articles on the front of the site as well. Time spent reading his information is time well spent.

The WeighTrainer - Bodybuilding, Powerlifting, Weightlifting, Strength Training, Nutrition
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Old 03-04-2010, 10:14 AM   #34
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As the board's resident HIT jedi, I'll have to side with the full body approach. Hitting your biceps for 22 sets really doesn't appeal to me. Now, my favorite bodybuilding contradiction is:

The training science of the natural smart guy vs. the "I'll follow anything that the big guy does and say crowd."

It's very fashionable to rip on the routines in bodybuilding magazines, but if Ronnie Coleman started handing out training advice on a forum, half the guys would be doing the Coleman split tomorrow.
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Old 03-04-2010, 11:06 AM   #35
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I've never done full body (for a reason) so I can only speak theoretically on this.

My thoughts lead toward split=better (obviously...or I'd have done full body before).

My reasons are threefold. 1. fatigue 2. fatigue 3. fatigue

1. Psychological fatigue
This may be my biggest argument against it. In fact, I have enough to say on the psychology of working out that I may very well start an independent thread on it at some point. Full body seems psychologically more difficult to me.

2. Physical fatigue per session
By the time you're working your last muscles on a full body, you've got to be tired enough that you won't be getting as good a workout as on your first muscles. As much as you could theoretically change up the order each workout to compensate, why not get the best workout for every muscle every time?

3. Physical fatique overall (burnout/overtraining)
That much time into a single workout and that much constant soreness and that much overall body stress.... Seems more likely to induce problems (refer back to #s 1 and 2)

Like I said, I have no direct experience with it (next month I'll be doing full body workouts for a month) but the above is my reasoning for why I haven't ever done full body.

Thoughts?
I've been on both splits and fullbody routines, and i have to say i enjoy the fullbody approach way more. but here is a quick response to your concerns

1. Psychological Fatigue- im really not sure what your point is

2. Physical Fatigue per session- while i agree this can be a problem, but you have multiple ways to counteract this problem, you can do an HLM set up that rotates the exercises that get each intensity. Also you can focus on the exercises that give you the biggest bang for your buck.

3. Physical fatigue overall- well for one, an intelligently designed fullbody workout doesn't have to take long, im often out in less than an hour. and as far as overtraining, thats why you use HLM
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Old 03-04-2010, 11:17 AM   #36
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I've been on both splits and fullbody routines, and i have to say i enjoy the fullbody approach way more. but here is a quick response to your concerns

1. Psychological Fatigue- im really not sure what your point is
This is my point:

http://muscleandbrawn.com/forums/bod...ybuilding.html

Since it's psychology, if you can't relate, you can't relate. Some people don't struggle this way, it seems. Or maybe some people just don't realize that they struggle this way. It's psychology...so it's pseudo science anyway, right? The point is, getting burned out mentally and emotionally.

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2. Physical Fatigue per session- while i agree this can be a problem, but you have multiple ways to counteract this problem, you can do an HLM set up that rotates the exercises that get each intensity. Also you can focus on the exercises that give you the biggest bang for your buck.

3. Physical fatigue overall- well for one, an intelligently designed fullbody workout doesn't have to take long, im often out in less than an hour. and as far as overtraining, thats why you use HLM
I will start a full body routine next month and this sort of discussion is very useful. I won't have real feedback beyond the conjecture I've made until I've experienced it. Then I'll come back and add more to the discussion.
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Old 03-04-2010, 11:18 AM   #37
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3. Physical fatigue overall- well for one, an intelligently designed fullbody workout doesn't have to take long, im often out in less than an hour. and as far as overtraining, thats why you use HLM
I would agree with this. John Christy uses a simple 2 day a week program with minimal, but effective lifts.

For 3 days a week, HLM is best. Starr's program is HLM. So are Casey Butt's. I even like the idea of using HLM in each workout based on bodypart.
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Old 03-04-2010, 11:27 AM   #38
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I even like the idea of using HLM in each workout based on bodypart.
This is something that you and I talked about a few months ago. I've incorporated this idea into my current program. It works great, from different aspects.

I have only have two lifts that are heavy lifts per session, mentally and physically this gives you a bit of a break. I feel that I've been able to keep up with hitting something hard three days a week. I also find that it easier overall to plan out the session.

There is not the issue of having 3 different weight amounts or reps based on what day of the week it is. As always, I look at how I can keep things at the absolute simplest, and keep progressing.
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Old 03-04-2010, 11:37 AM   #39
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Regarding psychological fatigue, I'm old school. When work needs to be done, I do it.

I teach my children that despite how they feel at any given moment, they need to do the right thing. This is being responsible. I might ask them how they feel about the work, but I never enable them to fail by letting them out of work because of emotional or psychological fatigue.

I think all of us have emotional and psychological fatigue to varying degrees each day. But I believe that the character of a man comes from doing what is right or hard or just no matter where he is at.

And when it comes to lifting iron, I believe those that "do" despite these fatigues are those that climb the mountain. If someone is in an emotionally/psychologically weak place, work still needs to get done. I think by stressing this reality, we set the proper standard.

I grew up around enablers. Everything was about "feeling". "It's OK Stevie, have a cookie."

I wish I had someone growing up that would have said, "Son, I understand where you are at. But a man is what a man does, and I will be most proud of you if shine in this tough moment."

I teach my children this, and live every day with this expectation placed upon myself. I fail sometimes, but when I triumph despite my situation, it is an amazing and uplifting feeling.

Last week when I deadlifted 525 for 4 reps with a shoulder and forearm strain, I felt most proud that I didn't quit. The lift PR was secondary.
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Old 03-04-2010, 12:08 PM   #40
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Regarding psychological fatigue, I'm old school. When work needs to be done, I do it.

I teach my children that despite how they feel at any given moment, they need to do the right thing. This is being responsible. I might ask them how they feel about the work, but I never enable them to fail by letting them out of work because of emotional or psychological fatigue.

I think all of us have emotional and psychological fatigue to varying degrees each day. But I believe that the character of a man comes from doing what is right or hard or just no matter where he is at.

And when it comes to lifting iron, I believe those that "do" despite these fatigues are those that climb the mountain. If someone is in an emotionally/psychologically weak place, work still needs to get done. I think by stressing this reality, we set the proper standard.

I grew up around enablers. Everything was about "feeling". "It's OK Stevie, have a cookie."

I wish I had someone growing up that would have said, "Son, I understand where you are at. But a man is what a man does, and I will be most proud of you if shine in this tough moment."

I teach my children this, and live every day with this expectation placed upon myself. I fail sometimes, but when I triumph despite my situation, it is an amazing and uplifting feeling.

Last week when I deadlifted 525 for 4 reps with a shoulder and forearm strain, I felt most proud that I didn't quit. The lift PR was secondary.
^^Props for this attitude. Give that man a cookie. Er...wait...a protein shake with extra...love?

My only response other than complete agreement is to throw in the thought that it's a journey. Everyone is who they are. Some are more responsible...either naturally or learned...than others. The important part is growth. If someone is irresponsible but working on being better at it, I say kudos to them too.

My parents taught me to be responsible and work hard even when it wasn't fun, etc., etc... I was naturally disinclined to get it. I get it now. But I'm still not perfect at it. But, literally, ten to fifteen years ago I was INCAPABLE of the discipline. Not just unwilling. Psychologically incapable of it. I did not have the maturity. But I have worked and worked on it for years and have gotten to the point where my level of discipline is significantly higher than most (at least when it comes to fitness - and by "most" I mean lay folk...not other fitness freaks like myself ).

Because it has been such a struggle for me, I have a unique perspective in it. I relate to the person who just can't resist the donut, or just can't finish the workout because it's...just...too...hard...*sob whine sob*. Seriously. I get that. I remember being that way. But...I also understand that one CAN overcome these things with effort and time.

We are all where we are psychologically (mentally, emotionally). It's the direction we're moving that matters more than where we are. Yes, where we are does matter. But where we're going matters more.
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