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-   -   John Grimek and Muscle Confusion (http://www.muscleandbrawn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2032)

BendtheBar 02-13-2010 09:31 AM

John Grimek and Muscle Confusion
 
John did alternate the structure of his programs every 8 to 12 weeks, from what I understand. But I don't believe his changes were anything dramatic - but I could be wrong. I don't believe he was shocking his system with vastly differently approaches every 3 months, so it surely doesn't seem like muscle confusion in the modern sense.

Quote:

John Grimekís training routine wasnít complicated. He stuck with the basics, and rarely rotated exercises. ...John Grimek knew that the basics worked. He didnít need muscle confusion, or new routines every 8-12 weeks. As long as his program was working, there was no need to change it.

John Grimekís primary exercises included presses, dumbbell presses, squats, power cleans, deadlifts, snatches, barbell bent over rowing and curls. He did very little else, and was always focused on adding more weight to the bar, eating enough food, and getting plenty of rest.

Grim83 02-13-2010 09:36 AM

this is a huge pet peeve for me, you cant anticipate when your workout will quit working, so the best method is to keep at it until you cant add weight then look for a few small changes to make

BendtheBar 02-13-2010 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grim83 (Post 28081)
this is a huge pet peeve for me, you cant anticipate when your workout will quit working, so the best method is to keep at it until you cant add weight then look for a few small changes to make

I agree Grim. I've never really slowed on bench or squats, or really on any major compound lift, so I've never seen the point in trying to confuse myself.

My definition of slowing may be different from others. If I can get one more rep in at least every 3 weeks, I don't want to change anything.

Some lifts I have dropped in weight due to injuries, but that's a different issue.

Grim83 02-13-2010 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BendtheBar (Post 28084)
I agree Grim. I've never really slowed on bench or squats, or really on any major compound lift, so I've never seen the point in trying to confuse myself.

My definition of slowing may be different from others. If I can get one more rep in at least every 3 weeks, I don't want to change anything.

Some lifts I have dropped in weight due to injuries, but that's a different issue.

baring an injury, i agree if you can add a rep or a few pounds at least once in three weeks then keep hitting it. This was something i had to answer repeatedly in my thread over on bb.com, i blame it on P90x and Weider.

I think my next article will be on this

glwanabe 02-13-2010 09:49 AM

I dislike the terms, muscle confusion, and shocking.

I think they portray an unreal sense of what you can, or need to do.

I try to always remember a few basic rules, and train by them.

Keep it simple
Progression is king.

I find that as I learn more about what I'm doing I use fewer moves overall. It's the quality of how you use the tools in your toolbox that makes a difference in your end product.

BendtheBar 02-13-2010 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grim83 (Post 28085)
baring an injury, i agree if you can add a rep or a few pounds at least once in three weeks then keep hitting it. This was something i had to answer repeatedly in my thread over on bb.com, i blame it on P90x and Weider.

I think my next article will be on this

One thing no one talks about with regards to muscle confusion, and the desire to confuse, is the slowing of natural gains.

I see many experienced natural lifters putting in a lot of effort to confuse muscles into new growth. But the reality is that new most of new growth comes with heavy compounds, and once you get strong on these, you probably have a fair share of muscle mass and there isn't much new growth to be had.

The last 10 pounds of muscle can be the hardest, but I believe they come more from patience and persistence more than a specific program. Sure, a shocking program like GVT might add a couple pounds of muscle for an experienced lifter, but the more you dip into the well, the less you have to draw from.

That's why I'm for a more aggressive approach to gains for beginners, and for bigger eating. Maximize out the gate with big weights and big food.

I know it's been said before, but for the average individuals...it's shocking enough if they just get their arse in the gym 52 weeks a year and push for progression.

Grim83 02-13-2010 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glwanabe (Post 28087)
I dislike the terms, muscle confusion, and shocking.

I think they portray an unreal sense of what you can, or need to do.

I try to always remember a few basic rules, and train by them.

Keep it simple
Progression is king.

I find that as I learn more about what I'm doing I use fewer moves overall. It's the quality of how you use the tools in your toolbox that makes a difference in your end product.

exactly, a master carpenter can use the same hammer as a DIY person, the difference is in skill refinement

glwanabe 02-13-2010 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BendtheBar (Post 28089)
One thing no one talks about with regards to muscle confusion, and the desire to confuse, is the slowing of natural gains.

I see many experienced natural lifters putting in a lot of effort to confuse muscles into new growth. But the reality is that new most of new growth comes with heavy compounds, and once you get strong on these, you probably have a fair share of muscle mass and there isn't much new growth to be had.

The last 10 pounds of muscle can be the hardest, but I believe they come more from patience and persistence more than a specific program. Sure, a shocking program like GVT might add a couple pounds of muscle for an experienced lifter, but the more you dip into the well, the less you have to draw from.

That's why I'm for a more aggressive approach to gains for beginners, and for bigger eating. Maximize out the gate with big weights and big food.

I know it's been said before, but for the average individuals...it's shocking enough if they just get their arse in the gym 52 weeks a year and push for progression.


^^^^^^^^

I don't think this point is talked about enough. Why would it want to be talked about? You have basically summed up, and thrown out thousands of pages of text and magazine articles that sold magazine issues, based around stimulating growth with "NEW programs" It took you all of 5 paragraphs to say it.

The truth is, there is very little that is new, or that needs to be reinvented. Patience and persistance, and continually hitting the big moves, will move the mountain.

Don't forget. this was created by water flowing over rock, but it took time.

http://www.sedonagrandcanyontourcomp...nyon_cover.jpg

RickB 02-13-2010 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BendtheBar (Post 28089)
One thing no one talks about with regards to muscle confusion, and the desire to confuse, is the slowing of natural gains.

I see many experienced natural lifters putting in a lot of effort to confuse muscles into new growth. But the reality is that new most of new growth comes with heavy compounds, and once you get strong on these, you probably have a fair share of muscle mass and there isn't much new growth to be had.

The last 10 pounds of muscle can be the hardest, but I believe they come more from patience and persistence more than a specific program. Sure, a shocking program like GVT might add a couple pounds of muscle for an experienced lifter, but the more you dip into the well, the less you have to draw from.

That's why I'm for a more aggressive approach to gains for beginners, and for bigger eating. Maximize out the gate with big weights and big food.

I know it's been said before, but for the average individuals...it's shocking enough if they just get their arse in the gym 52 weeks a year and push for progression.

Quote:

Originally Posted by glwanabe (Post 28091)
^^^^^^^^

I don't think this point is talked about enough. Why would it want to be talked about? You have basically summed up, and thrown out thousands of pages of text and magazine articles that sold magazine issues, based around stimulating growth with "NEW programs" It took you all of 5 paragraphs to say it.

The truth is, there is very little that is new, or that needs to be reinvented. Patience and persistance, and continually hitting the big moves, will move the mountain.

Don't forget. this was created by water flowing over rock, but it took time.


Ditto and Ditto!

onetiredkris 02-13-2010 02:49 PM

I want to type something up, but i feel terrible.

muscle adaption = key

confusion = myth


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