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-   -   Dump the Pump? (http://www.muscleandbrawn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1961)

onetiredkris 02-06-2010 04:15 PM

Dump the Pump?
 
This is a excerpt from the NFPT study manual. Putting this up to raise some eyebrows and get some thoughts, as I know most people judge the success of their workout based on the pump they received.

Quote:

“The Pump” Swelling of the Working Muscle.

Generally speaking, the majority of molecular elements are either carried
or diffused across microscopic capillary and cellular membranes if the concentration
of that molecular element is lower on the other side of the membrane.
However, relative to exercise, if the pressure of fluid on the outside
of the muscle cell membrane is greater than on the inside of the membrane,
the molecular element lactic acid, and wastes accumulating inside the muscle
cell during long sustained contractions, cannot be excreted. The build up of
excessive amounts of the intracellular fuel, lactic acid, is partially responsible
for contractile failure in high rep sets. This lactic acid disallows maximal
adaptive stress, and therefore compromises size and strength increase.
The following is an explanation of the occurrence of the pump. Lactic acid
builds up during anaerobic energy production in proportion to the intensity
and duration of cellular work performed. Since the cell membrane
is impermeable during contractions unused amounts of lactic acid cannot
escape. The longer the contraction is maintained, the greater this lactic acid
build-up. During this light, high rep training, the contracting muscle tissue
not only experiences a build up of lactic acid it also expands in circumference
causing a constriction of blood flow (a “kink” in the vessels if
you will) in the microscopic capillaries in the interstitial spaces. After a
long set, when the muscle relaxes, the back pressure of blood flow is relieved
(removing the kink.) This rush of blood into the working muscles makes
them appear much larger which subsides upon completion of the workout.
This tremendous amount of blood, immediately re-entering the microscopic
capillaries, is then perfused into the interstitial spaces where it exerts
pressure against the cell membranes. This pressure then prolongs the presence
of unspent intercellular lactic acid which will cause premature failure
of contraction in sets to follow if not given ample time for removal. This
occurrence is known as the pump, and should therefore be avoided if size and
strength increase is the client’s goal. This deserves repeating. The “pump”
should be avoided if size and strength increase is the client’s goal. Training
for this “pump” does of course have tremendous general health benefits
such as providing for a more efficient nutrient and oxygen delivery as well as
an improved waste and carbon-dioxide removal.


Grim83 02-06-2010 05:02 PM

I agree with the bold if your goal is solely to build strength, but when growth is the objective, a little pump training at the end of the workout is good

BendtheBar 02-06-2010 05:13 PM

A lot of this theoretical and clinical stuff I don't put too much credence into.

I know plenty of people on both sides of the pump fence that are big. I've never trained for a pump. I'm a firm believer that progression and consistency trumps pretty much everything.

I can see where a focus on the pump alone would be fairly worthless for natural users. But with that said, AAS users work under different rules. They need a volume of difficult contractions to encourage gains. The pump is more valuable for AAS users.

http://muscleandbrawn.com/forums/pro...kam-files.html

For naturals, to each his own. If you want to do pump training...rock on brother. Me, I'll be over in the corner doing my low rep work that doesn't build muscle. I'm not making fun of different "pumpers"...I just find no use for it.

onetiredkris 02-06-2010 05:19 PM

The bold actually states to avoid the pump if size or/and strength are the goal.
I think (even though it doesnt mention it) it means that working out strictly for a pump is not going to yield results.(which i certainly agree)
Its pretty much written for the skinny kids that only stay in the 15-20 rep range and wonder why they never get stronger or add any muscle.

But completely avoiding any pump is ridiculous in my mind. All my movements start and end with a high repetition set. 1st set is to get blood and nutrients into the muscle to prep it for the later-more demanding heavy sets to follow. And the last set is for the same point, to leave the muscle full of nutrients after it has been worked.

BendtheBar 02-06-2010 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onetiredkris (Post 26076)
The bold actually states to avoid the pump if size or/and strength are the goal.
I think (even though it doesnt mention it) it means that working out strictly for a pump is not going to yield results.(which i certainly agree)
Its pretty much written for the skinny kids that only stay in the 15-20 rep range and wonder why they never get stronger or add any muscle.

But completely avoiding any pump is ridiculous in my mind. All my movements start and end with a high repetition set. 1st set is to get blood and nutrients into the muscle to prep it for the later-more demanding heavy sets to follow. And the last set is for the same point, to leave the muscle full of nutrients after it has been worked.

I think you bring up a good point. It's somewhat difficult to avoid a good pump if you're working hard.

Some of the research behind Max-Stim training, and it's cousins Doggcrapp, C&P and Bulldozer, reveal that reps with limited rest are very good for growth. I've used this style for the better part of 16 (?) months now and I get pumps.

I dislike training with long rest between sets. I like hitting heavy weight, and beating a muscle while it's down. Mind you, I'm not trying to stump for a certain training style. I'm merely pointing out that many bodybuilding systems have pumps built into them indirectly, and they work just fine.

Grim83 02-06-2010 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BendtheBar (Post 26079)
I think you bring up a good point. It's somewhat difficult to avoid a good pump if you're working hard.

Some of the research behind Max-Stim training, and it's cousins Doggcrapp, C&P and Bulldozer, reveal that reps with limited rest are very good for growth. I've used this style for the better part of 16 (?) months now and I get pumps.

I dislike training with long rest between sets. I like hitting heavy weight, and beating a muscle while it's down. Mind you, I'm not trying to stump for a certain training style. I'm merely pointing out that many bodybuilding systems have pumps built into them indirectly, and they work just fine.

I've noticed this with GPDT also, i mean if your doing 7 reps in 5min using a near maximal weight it kinda figures you'll get a pump.

onetiredkris 02-06-2010 05:42 PM

Exactly, I've never heard of a routine that avoided getting any pump going. Which is why this excerpt stood out to me, to a beginner it pretty much sounds like it's condemning getting the slightest form of a pump.

Let me make sure people understand that I am not fully supporting this write-up, but it does share some information that you don't hear often. And the truth is to many people do gauge their workout based on how pumped they got, which isn't a good indicator of muscle breakdown at all.

bwys61 02-06-2010 05:56 PM

I have lots of clients that would love to workout without getting a pump or burn.

If you lift heavy weights or lots of repetition volume, guess what, you will get some sort of pump. its biology 102

glwanabe 02-06-2010 06:01 PM

I don't live for the pump. I want progression plain and simple. I want to see numbers and oveall growth.

I can't lie though. finishing a good workout, and having a bit of a pump does feel pretty good. It doesn't mean jack though if i haven't met my goals. I don't lift for a pump alone.

jdmalm123 02-06-2010 08:41 PM

This science is outdated and the fluid pressure inside the muscle DURING a workout is immaterial...muscles get bigger or stronger when? That's right at rest, when you're not training.

PS - There are some muscle groups that if I don't get some pump, I don't get bigger...


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