Muscle and Brawn Forums
 

Go Back   Muscle and Brawn Forums > Training > Muscle Building and Bodybuilding
Mark Forums Read
Register Articles Members List Search Today's Posts

Notices

Muscle Building and Bodybuilding Topics related to muscle building, bodybuilding, including training and fullbody workouts. If you are looking for great advice on gaining muscle this forum is for you.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 02-14-2014, 06:31 PM   #1
LindenGarcia18
Senior Member
Max Brawn
Points: 8,417, Level: 61 Points: 8,417, Level: 61 Points: 8,417, Level: 61
Activity: 16% Activity: 16% Activity: 16%
 
LindenGarcia18's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: London City UK
Posts: 1,811
Training Type: 5x5
Fav Exercise: One arm dumbbell rows.
Reputation: 64474
LindenGarcia18 is a lifting beastLindenGarcia18 is a lifting beastLindenGarcia18 is a lifting beastLindenGarcia18 is a lifting beastLindenGarcia18 is a lifting beastLindenGarcia18 is a lifting beastLindenGarcia18 is a lifting beastLindenGarcia18 is a lifting beastLindenGarcia18 is a lifting beastLindenGarcia18 is a lifting beastLindenGarcia18 is a lifting beast
Default Help needed with over head press.

When I go up to a new weight on any lift, I go up by 2.5kg.

The smallest plates I have are 1.25kg, and so two of those on either end of the bar.


Over head press is, like I know is the case with allot of people, a damn hard lift to progress with for me.


I recently managed to hit my 5X5 on the given weight, and so needed to increase for next time.

Like I say this increase was by 2.5kg.



The problem is, that with this new weight, with the added 2.5kg, my form really isn't very good.
Of course, it will improve as I get stronger, which is what I want, but I was wondering if this was a very good way to go about it...


When your form isn't great, isn't that substantially loweing the effectivness of the lift?

Naturally with OHP, it's the leaning back slightly when your near the top to get it up and over.

I definatly felt it in my shoulders, but I'm not sure weather lifting with not very good form is the best idea..


Like I said it'll get better of course, but I don't know weather I'm cheating myself out of proper muscle fiber recruitment.




It's not like I can just drop the weight a little either, because the smallest I can drop it is what I was on before, which I can do with perfect form and with no problem.


So it's either no challenge at all, or too much so that my form isn't great.

I don't really want to be switching up rep ranges and so on, I'd rather just stick to 5x5,
so do you think I should carry on with new weight and wait until my form gets better?


I did actually do that with the last weight I was on, and it worked ok, form improved pretty quickly,
I just thought I'd ask to make sure that was alright.



I'm still performing the lift in a safe manner I'm not straining, The main thing of course is that I get stronger and maintain my safety which will be ok, I just want to make sure I'm actually activating the shoulder properly and not cheating myself out of gains,
OR if in fact this is a necessary process I have to break through to be able to complete my sets with good form on this weight after I've got a bit stronger.



Thanks

- Linden


EDIT: Some notes on the bad form I think I'm doing.

I don't have means of video conversion otherwise I'd just show you, but imagine doing the lift, and then towards the middle just bending back a little bit (not much) so you can get it over your head, I guess bringing my chest into it just a little bit, as opposed to being totally straight.

I was also bending my knees a small amount as I lifted the weight up.

Last edited by LindenGarcia18; 02-14-2014 at 06:37 PM.
LindenGarcia18 is online now   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 02-14-2014, 06:47 PM   #2
Soldier
Senior Member
Max Brawn
Points: 14,594, Level: 78 Points: 14,594, Level: 78 Points: 14,594, Level: 78
Activity: 89% Activity: 89% Activity: 89%
 
Soldier's Avatar
 

Join Date: May 2011
Location: Ft. Hood, Tx
Posts: 3,977
Training Exp: On and off for 17 years.
Training Type: ARGH!!!
Fav Exercise: Bosu kickback pistols
Fav Supp: Crack on a trisket
Reputation: 241044
Soldier is a master memberSoldier is a master memberSoldier is a master memberSoldier is a master memberSoldier is a master memberSoldier is a master memberSoldier is a master memberSoldier is a master memberSoldier is a master memberSoldier is a master memberSoldier is a master member
Default

For now, keep moving up. A little bit of bad form is alright as long as things don't get out of hand. As you progress, you need to get a feel for how much form you can give up to keep moving more weight. When the crappy form is doing more of the lifting than your muscles, it's time to drop back down a little in weight. You'll find that when you do all of a sudden you can use perfect form with weights that used to make you cheat.
__________________
Current PRs at 242, raw w/ wraps- 525, 355, 605, 1485
Roboro tui, perimo vester adversarius
(Build yourself, destroy your enemy)
Soldier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2014, 08:15 PM   #3
Dray
Senior Member
Max Brawn
Points: 10,100, Level: 67 Points: 10,100, Level: 67 Points: 10,100, Level: 67
Activity: 6% Activity: 6% Activity: 6%
 

Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: tldu
Posts: 3,887
Training Type: Fullbody
Fav Exercise: bench press
Reputation: 235383
Dray is a master memberDray is a master memberDray is a master memberDray is a master memberDray is a master memberDray is a master memberDray is a master memberDray is a master memberDray is a master memberDray is a master memberDray is a master member
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LindenGarcia18 View Post
I don't really want to be switching up rep ranges and so on, I'd rather just stick to 5x5
Oh well, there goes my best advice, haha. What I've found works a treat is increasing reps first, then increasing weight by the smallest amount you can.

Speaking of which, microloading can help. Maybe you could track down some itty bitty plates (or use something else like magnets, etc.) for this purpose. I know that it's been pretty handy for me.

Where you at with OHP anyway, mate?
__________________
My training log
Dray is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2014, 08:16 PM   #4
bamazav
Bigger, Stronger, BAMA!
Max Brawn
Points: 26,424, Level: 97 Points: 26,424, Level: 97 Points: 26,424, Level: 97
Activity: 7% Activity: 7% Activity: 7%
 
bamazav's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
Posts: 4,923
Training Exp: 5
Training Type: ARGH!!!
Fav Exercise: Squats
Fav Supp: Deadlifts
Reputation: 222686
bamazav is a master memberbamazav is a master memberbamazav is a master memberbamazav is a master memberbamazav is a master memberbamazav is a master memberbamazav is a master memberbamazav is a master memberbamazav is a master memberbamazav is a master memberbamazav is a master member
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soldier View Post
For now, keep moving up. A little bit of bad form is alright as long as things don't get out of hand. As you progress, you need to get a feel for how much form you can give up to keep moving more weight. When the crappy form is doing more of the lifting than your muscles, it's time to drop back down a little in weight. You'll find that when you do all of a sudden you can use perfect form with weights that used to make you cheat.
This is good advice. I would add, don't worry about the plates. Micro loading can take you further than you think. Use what you have and keep moving forward.
__________________
David, Husband, Father, Pastor
(Yasen Miroslav Zavadil)

OBX Open August, 2014:
Squat 308 PR
Bench 176
Deadlift 402 PR
Total - 886 at 50 yrs 199.6 lbs

Shooting for a 900+ total for next meet. (see quote below)

"If there is nothing you can improve on, your standards are too low!" - BAMA Strength Coach Scott Cochran

1Co 9:27 But I discipline my body and keep it under control, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified
bamazav is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2014, 08:36 PM   #5
tomahawk
Senior Member
Brawn
Points: 3,006, Level: 33 Points: 3,006, Level: 33 Points: 3,006, Level: 33
Activity: 3% Activity: 3% Activity: 3%
 

Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 164
Reputation: 2460
tomahawk has made some good poststomahawk has made some good poststomahawk has made some good poststomahawk has made some good poststomahawk has made some good poststomahawk has made some good poststomahawk has made some good poststomahawk has made some good poststomahawk has made some good poststomahawk has made some good poststomahawk has made some good posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LindenGarcia18 View Post
I recently managed to hit my 5X5 on the given weight, and so needed to increase for next time.
My view on progression like this has changed recently. Personally, I would stick with the current weight until this 5x5 was nice and smooth. Something I felt I could do 9 times out of 10. Then I'd move up.

This isn't for everyone because it is a slow burn.
tomahawk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2014, 09:12 PM   #6
jdmalm123
Less is More
Max Brawn
Points: 13,158, Level: 74 Points: 13,158, Level: 74 Points: 13,158, Level: 74
Activity: 1% Activity: 1% Activity: 1%
 
jdmalm123's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Colorado
Posts: 3,883
Training Exp: not enough
Training Type: Powerbuilding
Fav Exercise: All of 'em
Fav Supp: Milk shake
Reputation: 405098
jdmalm123 is one with Crom!jdmalm123 is one with Crom!jdmalm123 is one with Crom!jdmalm123 is one with Crom!jdmalm123 is one with Crom!jdmalm123 is one with Crom!jdmalm123 is one with Crom!jdmalm123 is one with Crom!jdmalm123 is one with Crom!jdmalm123 is one with Crom!jdmalm123 is one with Crom!
Default

so far...

1. slightly "bad" form within reason is okay, reset if needed

2. stay with weights until smooth

3. add reps beyond 5, then add weight and drop back to 5 reps

I think Dray was going to say, change the rep scheme... I would agree...

strength is strength. One rep proves strength, multiple reps prove strength endurance. if you really want pure strength, less reps will get you there.

this could mean...singles, doubles, triples, less sets, declining reps, etc.
effort at your limit will require more recovery. both in between sets and between workouts.

for example, if you are struggling with 135x5x5, try one of the following:

125x6-10x5 (increasing strength endurance and tendon/ligament strength)

135x1x5 or 135x2x5 or 135x3x5 (saving some energy to ensure clean reps)

135x5x3 (save energy for recovery)

135x5,4,3,2,1 (offsetting declining endurance during workout)

120x5, 125x4, 130x3, 135x2, 140x1 (warming up without burning out and then setting PR)
__________________
Balance
jdmalm123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2014, 11:35 PM   #7
CountryFriedMuscle
Senior Member
Uber Brawn
Points: 1,780, Level: 24 Points: 1,780, Level: 24 Points: 1,780, Level: 24
Activity: 3% Activity: 3% Activity: 3%
 
CountryFriedMuscle's Avatar
 

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: VA
Posts: 427
Training Type: Strongman
Fav Exercise: Log Press
Reputation: 13037
CountryFriedMuscle is a dedicated contributorCountryFriedMuscle is a dedicated contributorCountryFriedMuscle is a dedicated contributorCountryFriedMuscle is a dedicated contributorCountryFriedMuscle is a dedicated contributorCountryFriedMuscle is a dedicated contributorCountryFriedMuscle is a dedicated contributorCountryFriedMuscle is a dedicated contributorCountryFriedMuscle is a dedicated contributorCountryFriedMuscle is a dedicated contributorCountryFriedMuscle is a dedicated contributor
Default

Another thing to consider is, you are doing 5x5. I know you didn't want to change reps, but you could try to increase the total volume with the lighter weight by adding sets. That would have you doing more work with a weight you could handle until you were ready to move up. Another option is to go ahead and move up, do as many sets as you can with the heavier weight with good form, and drop back down for the rest.

135 x 5,5
125 x 5, 5, 5

vs

125x5x5.

Its still progress, which is the key.
__________________
Best Lifts:
Squat/Bench/Deadlift (445/300/500)
Axle Press (270x4), Log Press (255x1), Farmer's (215/hand, 50 ft), Strict Press (225x1
CountryFriedMuscle is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2014, 08:47 AM   #8
5kgLifter
Kettlebells' Angel !!!!
Max Brawn
Points: 23,645, Level: 94 Points: 23,645, Level: 94 Points: 23,645, Level: 94
Activity: 11% Activity: 11% Activity: 11%
 
5kgLifter's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 13,928
Training Type: Other
Reputation: 646483
5kgLifter is one with Crom!5kgLifter is one with Crom!5kgLifter is one with Crom!5kgLifter is one with Crom!5kgLifter is one with Crom!5kgLifter is one with Crom!5kgLifter is one with Crom!5kgLifter is one with Crom!5kgLifter is one with Crom!5kgLifter is one with Crom!5kgLifter is one with Crom!
Default

As others have said, you can lower your load and do more reps then go back to the higher loads and lower reps; this system does work well, when you go back to the lower volume higher loading, it's easier to hit that weight load that you were having issues with before.

I use this system a lot.
__________________
36.5 kg /80.3 lb Middle-Finger DL (right hand)...
5kgLifter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2014, 11:49 AM   #9
TobesLCFC
Senior Member
Max Brawn
Points: 2,065, Level: 27 Points: 2,065, Level: 27 Points: 2,065, Level: 27
Activity: 8% Activity: 8% Activity: 8%
 
TobesLCFC's Avatar
 

Join Date: May 2013
Location: Leicester,UK
Posts: 624
Training Exp: 2
Training Type: Fullbody
Fav Exercise: Squat
Fav Supp: Greek Yoghurt with honey
Reputation: 20639
TobesLCFC is a dedicated contributorTobesLCFC is a dedicated contributorTobesLCFC is a dedicated contributorTobesLCFC is a dedicated contributorTobesLCFC is a dedicated contributorTobesLCFC is a dedicated contributorTobesLCFC is a dedicated contributorTobesLCFC is a dedicated contributorTobesLCFC is a dedicated contributorTobesLCFC is a dedicated contributorTobesLCFC is a dedicated contributor
Default

I did a high frequency benching program and helped my OHP amazingly. Upped my bench max by 15kg in 3 weeks, bout a month later hit 80kg x 3 on the OHP. Eat big as well, really helps the press.
__________________
Training log: http://muscleandbrawn.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15881

"No citizen has a right to be an amateur in the matter of physical training…what a disgrace it is for a man to grow old without ever seeing the beauty and strength of which his body is capable." – Socrates

"I never saved anything for the swim back."


"Compound exercises, kids! Compound exercises!"
TobesLCFC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2014, 01:00 PM   #10
big_swede
Senior Member
Max Brawn
Points: 34,215, Level: 100 Points: 34,215, Level: 100 Points: 34,215, Level: 100
Activity: 62% Activity: 62% Activity: 62%
 
big_swede's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: sweden
Posts: 11,849
Training Exp: 5
Training Type: Strongman
Fav Exercise: Cable flyes
Fav Supp: Celltech
Reputation: 477773
big_swede is one with Crom!big_swede is one with Crom!big_swede is one with Crom!big_swede is one with Crom!big_swede is one with Crom!big_swede is one with Crom!big_swede is one with Crom!big_swede is one with Crom!big_swede is one with Crom!big_swede is one with Crom!big_swede is one with Crom!
Default

In my experience most people at a beginner level progresses well on a higher rep range on the Press in particular.

I would suggest you do 5x10 instead of 5x5. Whenever you got all reps, att 2.5kg and start over.
__________________
big_swede is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
My bald head LtL General Board 9 02-07-2013 07:30 AM
Squatting with head down? Disciple X Powerlifting & Strength Training 2 08-22-2012 08:09 AM
Hit my Head mudrunner General Fitness & Health 4 02-23-2012 02:52 PM
Fat Head BendtheBar Low Carb & Paleo Diet 13 04-07-2011 02:21 PM
Incline Bench Press & Clavicular Head Hypertrophy xKyle10 Muscle Building and Bodybuilding 2 02-15-2011 01:17 AM

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:26 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.