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-   -   This Idea flawed? (http://www.muscleandbrawn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13976)

LindenGarcia18 06-08-2013 01:33 PM

This Idea flawed?
 
I managed to get over my fear of fat, because I realized that the fat I would be gaining would be a small amount using the 1-2 pound a month rule, and that if I needed to I'd be able to get rid of it quickly.

The idea was that if I gained more fat than I was comfortable with, I could do a short 2-4 week cut after a period of anywhere from 3-5 months bulking.

To do this, rather than reducing my calories that could be detrimental to my growth and development as a teenager, I'd burn those couple of pounds I'd gained by doing some high intensity cardio, whilst eating at my maintenance calorie level.


However, I've just thought, wouldn't that be the same thing as a calorie deficit through food? Could doing this have the same detrimental effects as the dropping calories through my diet?

Until now I assumed it'd be different but its just dawned on me.

If thats the case, then my only option is to bulk. Indefinitely. Which as you'll know will cause quite a few problems for me personally with jobs etc;
What more I don't really want to be going through the prime years of my life having an undesirable body fat percentage, regardless of modeling jobs.


Really thought I'd found a way to do it this time. :mad:

Soldier 06-08-2013 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LindenGarcia18 (Post 372620)
I managed to get over my fear of fat, because I realized that the fat I would be gaining would be a small amount using the 1-2 pound a month rule, and that if I needed to I'd be able to get rid of it quickly.

The idea was that if I gained more fat than I was comfortable with, I could do a short 2-4 week cut after a period of anywhere from 3-5 months bulking.

To do this, rather than reducing my calories that could be detrimental to my growth and development as a teenager, I'd burn those couple of pounds I'd gained by doing some high intensity cardio, whilst eating at my maintenance calorie level.


However, I've just thought, wouldn't that be the same thing as a calorie deficit through food? Could doing this have the same detrimental effects as the dropping calories through my diet?

Until now I assumed it'd be different but its just dawned on me.

If thats the case, then my only option is to bulk. Indefinitely. Which as you'll know will cause quite a few problems for me personally with jobs etc;
What more I don't really want to be going through the prime years of my life having an undesirable body fat percentage, regardless of modeling jobs.


Really thought I'd found a way to do it this time. :mad:

Understand that if you are trying to lose fat/weight you will always have to be in a calorie deficit. Whether you create the deficit by eating less or by doing more cardio it's still basically the same thing.

I'm not really sure if I see the issue, and no, you don't have to bulk forever. If at any point you get a little too fat you can do a little cutting and get back to where you want to be, it doesn't mean you're going to lose all your muscle too.

Just lift heavy with compound movements and eat enough to gain a little and good things will happen, I promise!

Kleurplaay 06-08-2013 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LindenGarcia18 (Post 372620)
To do this, rather than reducing my calories that could be detrimental to my growth and development as a teenager, I'd burn those couple of pounds I'd gained by doing some high intensity cardio, whilst eating at my maintenance calorie level.

However, I've just thought, wouldn't that be the same thing as a calorie deficit through food? Could doing this have the same detrimental effects as the dropping calories through my diet?

Couldn't have answered your question any better than you did yourself. A calorie deficit means calories out > calories in. Having read a couple of your posts I think I have a decent idea of what you want to gain from lifting.

An idea for you would be to find your maintenance calories, train hard. Slowly add in extra calories (say 150 at a time?), stay on those calories for a while and look at what's happening on the scale, in the mirror and in the weight room. It would seem to me that this way you would inevitably find a calorie intake at which you do not get 'fatter' but still gain muscle mass and strength. You'll gain a little fat, that's unavoidable. But if you gain enough muscle mass with that fat I'll promise you you'll actually look leaner. Think of it like this.

Someone who weighs 150 lbs with 15 lbs of fat on him has a bodyfat percentage of 10%.

Someone who weighs 200lbs with 20 lbs of fat on him has that same bodyfat percentage, but also has 50lbs more muscle to go with that fat.

If you track your progress carefully, which I'm sure you can do. You will find a way to maximise your strength and muscle gains and keep the fat gains so low that you will only look leaner and leaner as a result of more muscle mass.

Patience is key here. Changes in weight and muscle mass do not happen overnight and training like this requires quite a bit more precision and elegance than the good ol' bulk & cut, but can be just as effective if done right!

LindenGarcia18 06-08-2013 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soldier (Post 372630)
Understand that if you are trying to lose fat/weight you will always have to be in a calorie deficit. Whether you create the deficit by eating less or by doing more cardio it's still basically the same thing.

I'm not really sure if I see the issue, and no, you don't have to bulk forever. If at any point you get a little too fat you can do a little cutting and get back to where you want to be, it doesn't mean you're going to lose all your muscle too.

Just lift heavy with compound movements and eat enough to gain a little and good things will happen, I promise!



Basically it was the idea that'd it'd be detrimental to my development.
Aparently as a teenager cutting can stunt our growth because your basically starving your self.

Thats the problem. My focus is on bulking up now obvously, but the fact that I can't lose that extra fat without making y self ill and stunting my growth is a worry.

in a nut shell, having a moddeling job means I can't afford to put on fat that will make me look different in my face, or I'll lose it, because the contract would go to someone with more defined bone structure.

I understand I won't get fat, I know that. But its the fact remains that I will put on some fat by doing this. Which I came to terms with thinking It shouldn't be a stress because I'd be able to get rid of it if it got out of hand and do a short cut.

If I can't vut, then the fat just stays there, building up as the years go on while I continue to bulk, until I stop growing, and am able to cut..



That sounds crap to me what ever way I cut it, and I don't mean just the moddeling job.
What teen wants to llok chubby while theyr'e at school, colledge and uni, looking for girls and feeling god about themselves.
The whole idea of bulking till I've stopped growing would just make me indefinitely miserable, no to mention what it would do to my selfesteem and moddeling career.

I have to gain some fat, I get that. But now from where I'm standing, it just looks like a lose lose situation.

"Yeah, ou can build a hell of muscle in the next 5 years! Oh yeah, there is a downside though. You'll have to look chubby in the prime time of your life and lose your job if you want this."

Seems pointless if this is really how its going to be.

I'd surly be in the overweight category if I bulked until I'd stopped growing. I'd have put on a bout 40 pounds of fat by that time if I just ket bulking!
Even at 1-2 pounds a month body weight gain. The muscle would offset it somewhat I know, but I doubt I'd look good.
What's more, I'll have to get rid of all that fat at the end, which would call for a drastic cut, and then I'd lose allot of my muscle, and end up almost back where I started.


Nothing really seems to be in my favor. I was really optimistic before too. :(

LindenGarcia18 06-08-2013 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kleurplaay (Post 372638)
Couldn't have answered your question any better than you did yourself. A calorie deficit means calories out > calories in. Having read a couple of your posts I think I have a decent idea of what you want to gain from lifting.

An idea for you would be to find your maintenance calories, train hard. Slowly add in extra calories (say 150 at a time?), stay on those calories for a while and look at what's happening on the scale, in the mirror and in the weight room. It would seem to me that this way you would inevitably find a calorie intake at which you do not get 'fatter' but still gain muscle mass and strength. You'll gain a little fat, that's unavoidable. But if you gain enough muscle mass with that fat I'll promise you you'll actually look leaner. Think of it like this.

Someone who weighs 150 lbs with 15 lbs of fat on him has a bodyfat percentage of 10%.

Someone who weighs 200lbs with 20 lbs of fat on him has that same bodyfat percentage, but also has 50lbs more muscle to go with that fat.

If you track your progress carefully, which I'm sure you can do. You will find a way to maximise your strength and muscle gains and keep the fat gains so low that you will only look leaner and leaner as a result of more muscle mass.

Patience is key here. Changes in weight and muscle mass do not happen overnight and training like this requires quite a bit more precision and elegance than the good ol' bulk & cut, but can be just as effective if done right!



I agree with everyhting youv'e said, but I do moddeling. I have to keep my face lean to keep the job. I was sure my method would work but it doesn't look that way.

I know I'll look leaner over time, but thats the bit thats the problem. Time. It'll take years before I get a true offset of the fat from the muscle I'd gained.

I'd have to put on around 30 pounds of muscle to get to 10% without cutting, which is great from someone not modeling, because you don't have to stress that bit of fat gain knowing you'll end up leaner in the long run.

LindenGarcia18 06-08-2013 02:48 PM

I have all the information there in black and white. And it just doesn't seem to add up anymore.

Soldier 06-08-2013 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LindenGarcia18 (Post 372640)
Basically it was the idea that'd it'd be detrimental to my development.
Aparently as a teenager cutting can stunt our growth because your basically starving your self.

Thats the problem. My focus is on bulking up now obvously, but the fact that I can't lose that extra fat without making y self ill and stunting my growth is a worry.

in a nut shell, having a moddeling job means I can't afford to put on fat that will make me look different in my face, or I'll lose it, because the contract would go to someone with more defined bone structure.

I understand I won't get fat, I know that. But its the fact remains that I will put on some fat by doing this. Which I came to terms with thinking It shouldn't be a stress because I'd be able to get rid of it if it got out of hand and do a short cut.

If I can't vut, then the fat just stays there, building up as the years go on while I continue to bulk, until I stop growing, and am able to cut..



That sounds crap to me what ever way I cut it, and I don't mean just the moddeling job.
What teen wants to llok chubby while theyr'e at school, colledge and uni, looking for girls and feeling god about themselves.
The whole idea of bulking till I've stopped growing would just make me indefinitely miserable, no to mention what it would do to my selfesteem and moddeling career.

I have to gain some fat, I get that. But now from where I'm standing, it just looks like a lose lose situation.

"Yeah, ou can build a hell of muscle in the next 5 years! Oh yeah, there is a downside though. You'll have to look chubby in the prime time of your life and lose your job if you want this."

Seems pointless if this is really how its going to be.

I'd surly be in the overweight category if I bulked until I'd stopped growing. I'd have put on a bout 40 pounds of fat by that time if I just ket bulking!
Even at 1-2 pounds a month body weight gain. The muscle would offset it somewhat I know, but I doubt I'd look good.
What's more, I'll have to get rid of all that fat at the end, which would call for a drastic cut, and then I'd lose allot of my muscle, and end up almost back where I started.


Nothing really seems to be in my favor. I was really optimistic before too. :(

Haha, you are REALLY over thinking this. Cutting a little fat isn't going to have any negative effect on your physical development or stunt your growth. There is a HUGE difference between running a small calorie deficit for a little while and starving yourself, just like there's a huge difference between running a slow bulk and stuffing yourself with everything you see.

Try to remember one of the things I keep telling you; Commit to your program, give it time to work, then adjust according to your results. You're not trying to become a powerlifter or be the biggest, baddest dude on the football team. You're going for a certain look, and if you don't maximize every little ounce of muscle then that's ok.

Like I said, lift heavy, get stronger, eat a little extra to give your body the chance to grow and you'll be happy with your results.

LindenGarcia18 06-08-2013 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soldier (Post 372652)
Haha, you are REALLY over thinking this. Cutting a little fat isn't going to have any negative effect on your physical development or stunt your growth. There is a HUGE difference between running a small calorie deficit for a little while and starving yourself, just like there's a huge difference between running a slow bulk and stuffing yourself with everything you see.

Try to remember one of the things I keep telling you; Commit to your program, give it time to work, then adjust according to your results. You're not trying to become a powerlifter or be the biggest, baddest dude on the football team. You're going for a certain look, and if you don't maximize every little ounce of muscle then that's ok.

Like I said, lift heavy, get stronger, eat a little extra to give your body the chance to grow and you'll be happy with your results.



I guess your right. As long as it won't stunt my growth then that fine I guess.

If I end up cutting after 3-5 months of bulking, it'd be 2-4 weeks of it, so I suppose that wouldn't be drastic enough to stunt my growth

LindenGarcia18 06-08-2013 05:51 PM



Here the video that told me this, incase you wanted to see it

Squatter 06-08-2013 06:05 PM

Cardio can actually be beneficial to lifting. For example, being cardiovasculary fit will increase blood oxygenation, which is good as what's in the blood is important. You are much better off creating a calorie deficit via cardio than cutting food intake. Moderation is key:)


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