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Muscle Building and Bodybuilding Topics related to muscle building, bodybuilding, including training and fullbody workouts. If you are looking for great advice on gaining muscle this forum is for you.

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Old 06-04-2013, 08:12 AM   #41
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at the end of the day linden is not going find what he is looking for, any ANSWER any one gives him he will cross examine it or will not believe the answer he has been given, sorry if I sound harsh but I believe that is the truth.
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Old 06-04-2013, 08:44 AM   #42
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All right, let me try again.

You asked a simple question. And you have got the answers. The first page of this thread contains links to David Haye's workout. As you can yourself see, unlike your original premise Haye does train with weights and fairly heavy weights at that.
That was really the only question I asked.

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You then brought up the topic of getting muscular while staying lean.
I was asking about his muscularity and how lean he was, and then I got contradictions to what I'd been told before about staying lean.


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This has also been answered. It is possible to bulk while staying lean - it just takes a lot of time. Haye's was boxing at the age of 10 (read his bio). He is 32 now. He has probably been weight training since you were born. Yes - you can get close to that physique -but like Haye, put in another 10-15 years in the trenches. You want to look like Haye, and train like Haye? Well then, be prepared to train for as long as Haye.
The guy I want to look like built his physique in a year and a bit.
I'm not saying I'll do the same, but I' should get there in 2 years.
He barley put on any fat. Certainly not enough to make him look fat.


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Next, you have been asking if you can gain 1-2 lbs a month. This has been answered too. Yes, you can - initially, because you seem to be quite underweight. 1-2 lbs gain a month for the initial 4-5 months is still not enough to get you close to Haye. Beyond the initial stage, the rate of gains fade away rapidly. Had this not been the case, the average natural bodybuilder would be walking around at 300 lbs, ripped.
I'm well aware I won't look anything like him anytime soon.

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Seems to me that your questions have been answered clearly, but apparently, you dont like the answers.
No. I don't like the way every person has a different answer, even though they all share the same trend in criticizing me for the things I say..

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As for the hatred ... nah, its not hatred, but mild irritation. For instance, look at what you quoted from 5kg in the above post. She talked about you being able to gain muscle with minimal fat gain because you are a beginner. You wont stay a beginner forever
No, She's been helping me for ages, showing me other people, adults, 2 or 3 years into their lifting that stay pretty lean all the way.
When she said she'd never said gaining 1-2 pounds of weight would produce lean gains, I thought she meant I couldn't in fact stay lean, seen as the 1-2 pounds a month idea was the one I was following from the start based on her advice, and everyone else's for that matter.

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and beginner gains dont keep coming forever. I dont see any contradiction in her (or anyone else's advice).
I agree, I see that now.

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The beginner gains wont turn your physique into one like Haye's.
Quite obviously not.

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And beyond the initial beginner gains, you will gain very slowly unless you are prepared to gain some fat.
I never disputed that.

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I do see, repeatedly, that you cannot be bothered to pay attention and read the posts completely - just as you didnt read 5kgg's post completely (where she quite clearly stated that you can expect to gain muscle with minimal fat since you are a beginner).
But thats where your wrong. That advice is what I've based my training on.

I don't see where everyone gets this idea from that I don't pay attention.

Why would I bother asking questions If I don't listen to the answers?

Why would I bother posting my workouts on a log on here, if I didn't want your advice?

Why would I even be on this site, if I didn't want advice.

Does it occur to you that its me stupidly confusing and complicating things rather than me actually not listening?



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Before there was internet, people still lifted ... and got stronger, bigger and ripped. It is not really rocket science. Lift heavy. Eat appropriately - meaning if you want to pile on mass fast, eat big and accept some chub over an extended period of time; if you want to stay lean, eat accordingly, but be prepared for slower muscle gain. That is how simple it is, and probably all you need to know over next 6 months of lifting.

Its more the variables that I'm complicating. I know the basics, I have all of that information, I just worry about where its taking me, and with so much conflicting advice (people telling me I can't remain lean, others telling me I can)

I believe the people who tell me I can, I've seen it been done first hand. However, the dismiss I get when its mentioned, like I'm an idiot for even thinking I could remain lean, is disheartening, regardless of how true it is.

Understandably, when I have very experienced people, telling me I can't remain leaner, and other equally experienced people telling me I can, its confusing.
Even if the truth is there that I can in fact achieve what I want.

The main reason of corse for this is my OCD, that makes me question everything and worry about things. I'm working on getting rid of that, but thats the reason.

OCD latches on the the things you fear most. Obviously for me its fat gain, being a clothes model and been at an age where I'm out allot impressing girls!
Not to mention trying to make a good impression on the girl I've liked for the past 3 years. If she notices I'm getting fatter, when she knows I've now started working out, its hardly going to look great is it.


This theme of me worried about getting fat comes up in nearly every thread, because people jump to conclusions about what I'm asking.
I never asked for this to be discussed, and now I look like I'm beating the same dead horse again and everybody's annoyed.

All I did was ask about David Haye's (and athletes in general) training and diet.

And how I didn't understand how he stayed lean and looked great, without being on a bulk and cut regime, and lifting weights.

Everybody's now informed me that he does in fact lift weights, and that he wouldn't look like that year round. End of story. I got my answer.

However along with that came to=he assumptions, that I was looking for an easy way out of training, that I was gain looking for a way to not put on fat, and some even plucked the idea out of thin air that I aspired to look like him, and said you can't stay lean, and build muscle.

This happens every time. Assumptions.

I asked, purely because I was curious and nothing more, but like every thread I put up, this is how it turns out.
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Old 06-04-2013, 08:46 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by Dray View Post
I haven't read through the thread yet Linden, but my 2c is this:

You can definitely "recomp" as opposed to bulk and cut. I know this from experience, and also from a few people I've seen and talked with, who've been doing it that way for years now (and yes, they are quite "lean" and "ripped", as well as strong).

As for athletes, you might (or might not, of course) be surprised just how many of them lift weights. Boxers, MMA guys, gymnasts, cyclers, sprinters, etc., etc...

It's quite possible all that has already been posted. If so, sorry. But they're two things a lot of people are *not* aware of, I've found.


Thanks Dray, I agree even if I'm not qualified to.
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Old 06-04-2013, 08:54 AM   #44
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The mistake you keep making is in searching for a way to get big and muscular (like an athlete) without gaining any fat. That. Doesn't. Happen. Ever.

I. Never. Said. That. Once.

MINIMAL FAT GAIN is what I'm after, so that it doesn't really notice.

Like Dray said, there's allot that people aren't aware of. You can't point blank say it doesn't happen. People have done it, weather you think its possible or not.

Will I try and peruse this? No. All I want is to gain minimal fat.

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I don't care what anyone tells you or what anyone looks like. They gained fat while gaining muscle. Even if it were possible, the likelihood that you (or I) have the genetics to do it is a gazillion to one.
People have done it thought. I find it pretty arrogant of you to say its not possible. There's body recomposition for a start, are you saying thats a myth?

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Just eat and train. Spend 3 years building muscle, do one slow cut, and maintain your desired body for the rest of your life. It's really that simple.
It is simple. Its what I'm doing now. However that doesn't stop me worrying about it.

I trust what you all say, and my diet and workout is based on what you told me to do. End of.

I worry, yes, but in my head.

It only comes to the for front in a situation like this, where it somehow gets dragged back up again.
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Old 06-04-2013, 08:56 AM   #45
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linden if you want to know how David hay stays so lean I suggest going a long to a boxing club, you will soon find out why boxers stay lean, the training is brutal.
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Old 06-04-2013, 08:57 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by leefarley View Post
at the end of the day linden is not going find what he is looking for, any ANSWER any one gives him he will cross examine it or will not believe the answer he has been given, sorry if I sound harsh but I believe that is the truth.


I'm following what you all told me to do arn't I? Iv'e come that far to actually start.

I had no intention of yet again discussing my worries. As I said before they're there, but they only come to the forefront when my original question gets twisted through misconception.
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Old 06-04-2013, 09:02 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by LindenGarcia18 View Post
I'm following what you all told me to do arn't I? Iv'e come that far to actually start.

I had no intention of yet again discussing my worries. As I said before they're there, but they only come to the forefront when my original question gets twisted through misconception.
what have I told you do ?
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Old 06-04-2013, 09:03 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by leefarley View Post
linden if you want to know how David hay stays so lean I suggest going a long to a boxing club, you will soon find out why boxers stay lean, the training is brutal.

See though Lee there's another one of those contradictions. You say they stay lean because of their training, while others have said he's fatter at camp, and cuts up before a fight.

How can I base my opinions when everyone has a different one.


I also never said once I wanted to look like him, I just asked about him along with other athletes and what they do for training and diet. Thats all.


Then people think I've asked for something else and get annoyed.
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Old 06-04-2013, 09:06 AM   #49
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what have I told you do ?
Follow a progression t=scheme I can handle, up the reps a little, drop the weight down, etc;

Which is what I've been doing for 2 weeks.
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Old 06-04-2013, 09:08 AM   #50
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Follow a progression t=scheme I can handle, up the reps a little, drop the weight down, etc;

Which is what I've been doing for 2 weeks.
ok fair enough, have you logged it ?
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