Muscle and Brawn Forums
 

Go Back   Muscle and Brawn Forums > Training > Muscle Building and Bodybuilding
Mark Forums Read
Register Articles Members List Search Today's Posts

Notices

Muscle Building and Bodybuilding Topics related to muscle building, bodybuilding, including training and fullbody workouts. If you are looking for great advice on gaining muscle this forum is for you.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 11-30-2009, 11:37 AM   #11
Grim83
Director: TGZ
Max Brawn
Points: 6,663, Level: 53 Points: 6,663, Level: 53 Points: 6,663, Level: 53
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
 
Grim83's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: alabama
Posts: 1,597
Reputation: 14693
Grim83 is a dedicated contributorGrim83 is a dedicated contributorGrim83 is a dedicated contributorGrim83 is a dedicated contributorGrim83 is a dedicated contributorGrim83 is a dedicated contributorGrim83 is a dedicated contributorGrim83 is a dedicated contributorGrim83 is a dedicated contributorGrim83 is a dedicated contributorGrim83 is a dedicated contributor
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MuscleandBrawn View Post
I am hoping for an interview, but wouldn't bet my luck. He is primarily a strength trainer, but has written a book on bodybuilding. His bodybuilding approach is very much an HLM.

I am very curious as to why he feels full bodies are inferior. My gut is that he believes this way because he can't envision someone doing squats, bench and deads all on the same day.

And to add to GLwanabe's statement...when we as individuals cling to only one strand, we tend to become fringe. Mike Mentzer is the best example of this.
you didn't offend me, and as far as why, my gut says its probably something to do with his way of training. Over at bb.com i am in the bodygroup TGZ, and many of our members have used his ABC set method with great success, but i couldn't imagine those in a full body routine
User owns 1x Super Squats
__________________
It isn't that they cant see the solution.
It is that they cant see the problem.
-G.K. Chesterton

No Bullshit no problems

My Blog- http://grim83.blogspot.com/
Grim83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 11-30-2009, 11:44 AM   #12
BendtheBar
Bearded Beast of Duloc
Max Brawn
Points: 1,554,481, Level: 100 Points: 1,554,481, Level: 100 Points: 1,554,481, Level: 100
Activity: 49% Activity: 49% Activity: 49%
 
BendtheBar's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 80,907
Training Exp: 20+ years
Training Type: Powerbuilding
Fav Exercise: Deadlift
Fav Supp: Butter
Reputation: 2581830
BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grim83 View Post
you didn't offend me, and as far as why, my gut says its probably something to do with his way of training. Over at bb.com i am in the bodygroup TGZ, and many of our members have used his ABC set method with great success, but i couldn't imagine those in a full body routine
I think his ABC approach could be used if you placed it upon a 3-day-per week schedule. Of course, numerous modifications would have to be made. The volume on certain days would be insane.

I've never really run across a good Dr. Squat ABC thread. Then again, I've never actively look for one.
__________________
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Destroy That Which Destroys You

"Let bravery be thy choice, but not bravado."


BendtheBar is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2009, 11:47 AM   #13
Grim83
Director: TGZ
Max Brawn
Points: 6,663, Level: 53 Points: 6,663, Level: 53 Points: 6,663, Level: 53
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
 
Grim83's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: alabama
Posts: 1,597
Reputation: 14693
Grim83 is a dedicated contributorGrim83 is a dedicated contributorGrim83 is a dedicated contributorGrim83 is a dedicated contributorGrim83 is a dedicated contributorGrim83 is a dedicated contributorGrim83 is a dedicated contributorGrim83 is a dedicated contributorGrim83 is a dedicated contributorGrim83 is a dedicated contributorGrim83 is a dedicated contributor
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MuscleandBrawn View Post
I think his ABC approach could be used if you placed it upon a 3-day-per week schedule. Of course, numerous modifications would have to be made. The volume on certain days would be insane.

I've never really run across a good Dr. Squat ABC thread. Then again, I've never actively look for one.
Here is justin sulhams thread, he was the guy who got tgz on it, and was one of our founding members
My routine has been f*cking sick in terms of results! Awesome! - Page 92 - Bodybuilding.com Forums

Biggest. Baddest. Beast. Justin Sulham seeks Beast Status! My journal. - Page 6 - Bodybuilding.com Forums
User owns 1x Super Squats
__________________
It isn't that they cant see the solution.
It is that they cant see the problem.
-G.K. Chesterton

No Bullshit no problems

My Blog- http://grim83.blogspot.com/
Grim83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2009, 11:58 AM   #14
BendtheBar
Bearded Beast of Duloc
Max Brawn
Points: 1,554,481, Level: 100 Points: 1,554,481, Level: 100 Points: 1,554,481, Level: 100
Activity: 49% Activity: 49% Activity: 49%
 
BendtheBar's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 80,907
Training Exp: 20+ years
Training Type: Powerbuilding
Fav Exercise: Deadlift
Fav Supp: Butter
Reputation: 2581830
BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grim83 View Post
Thanks. I'll take a peak.

__________________
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Destroy That Which Destroys You

"Let bravery be thy choice, but not bravado."


BendtheBar is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2009, 12:00 PM   #15
Grim83
Director: TGZ
Max Brawn
Points: 6,663, Level: 53 Points: 6,663, Level: 53 Points: 6,663, Level: 53
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
 
Grim83's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: alabama
Posts: 1,597
Reputation: 14693
Grim83 is a dedicated contributorGrim83 is a dedicated contributorGrim83 is a dedicated contributorGrim83 is a dedicated contributorGrim83 is a dedicated contributorGrim83 is a dedicated contributorGrim83 is a dedicated contributorGrim83 is a dedicated contributorGrim83 is a dedicated contributorGrim83 is a dedicated contributorGrim83 is a dedicated contributor
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MuscleandBrawn View Post
Thanks. I'll take a peak.

have fun
User owns 1x Super Squats
__________________
It isn't that they cant see the solution.
It is that they cant see the problem.
-G.K. Chesterton

No Bullshit no problems

My Blog- http://grim83.blogspot.com/
Grim83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2009, 08:19 PM   #16
BendtheBar
Bearded Beast of Duloc
Max Brawn
Points: 1,554,481, Level: 100 Points: 1,554,481, Level: 100 Points: 1,554,481, Level: 100
Activity: 49% Activity: 49% Activity: 49%
 
BendtheBar's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 80,907
Training Exp: 20+ years
Training Type: Powerbuilding
Fav Exercise: Deadlift
Fav Supp: Butter
Reputation: 2581830
BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!
Default

Casey responded to my comments on Dr. Squat:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Squat
"People who dogmatically recommend full body training despite this evidence are simply ignorant or in denial of the obvious.
No powerlifter has ever set records in the squat and bench press by performing them in the same workout. It's too much for the body to recover from when the goal are strength, power, or hypertrophy."
Isn't it funny how the truly ignorant frequently display their gross ignorance when making comments about other people's supposed ignorance?



Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Squat
I gotta tell ya, if I were able to coach Anderson, Hepburn or Park, they'd have done MUCH better than they did!
I bet Anderson, Hepburn and Park would disagree with this statement. I'm not saying it isn't true, but I don't think either of these men were idiots when it came to producing gains from their training and bodies - after all, they were all stronger than Hatfield would have been without steroids ...and perhaps even with, depending on Hatfield's use of bench shirts, lifting suits, etc, and how you judge strength. That doesn't weigh the genetic gifts of those men vs. Hatfield though. Still, I think there's a tinge of truth to Dr. Hatfield's statement. I once added 90 lbs to my Squat over a 12-week cycle following Hatfield's routine (which was really just a stretched out version of a Squat program from a mid-70s Soviet yearbook).



Quote:
Originally Posted by Muscleandbrawn
What I am trying to accomplish is to get his scientific slant on the "why" behind what he believes. The above response really isn't helpful.
You'll won't get it. There is no consenus of evidence published in the research supporting the use of split routines over full-body for producing strength and muscle gain in drug-free individuals - in fact, the stronger case exists for the opposite.

The best you'll get is either, "it's what 'modern, more enlightened' powerlifters and bodybuilders" do (which, considering their drug-use amounts to nothing), or vague inferences to the Soviets who trained in manners that were more akin to full-body than splits, but with different emphasis on different lifts at different sessions - really very much like very structured full-body H/L/M.



Quote:
Originally Posted by john casey
Specialisation and bodypart split routines typically tend to be used either by steroid users, natural professional bodybuilders wanting to peak close to a contest, or the average gym rat who has already achieved their maximum muscular potential. Most of the members here probably don't fit into these categories, although some may.
That sums it up incredibly nicely.
__________________
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Destroy That Which Destroys You

"Let bravery be thy choice, but not bravado."


BendtheBar is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2009, 08:30 PM   #17
Grim83
Director: TGZ
Max Brawn
Points: 6,663, Level: 53 Points: 6,663, Level: 53 Points: 6,663, Level: 53
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
 
Grim83's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: alabama
Posts: 1,597
Reputation: 14693
Grim83 is a dedicated contributorGrim83 is a dedicated contributorGrim83 is a dedicated contributorGrim83 is a dedicated contributorGrim83 is a dedicated contributorGrim83 is a dedicated contributorGrim83 is a dedicated contributorGrim83 is a dedicated contributorGrim83 is a dedicated contributorGrim83 is a dedicated contributorGrim83 is a dedicated contributor
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MuscleandBrawn View Post
Isn't it funny how the truly ignorant frequently display their gross ignorance when making comments about other people's supposed ignorance?

You'll won't get it. There is no consenus of evidence published in the research supporting the use of split routines over full-body for producing strength and muscle gain in drug-free individuals - in fact, the stronger case exists for the opposite.

The best you'll get is either, "it's what 'modern, more enlightened' powerlifters and bodybuilders" do (which, considering their drug-use amounts to nothing), or vague inferences to the Soviets who trained in manners that were more akin to full-body than splits, but with different emphasis on different lifts at different sessions - really very much like very structured full-body H/L/M.
HAHA i like that, especially the first paragraph
User owns 1x Super Squats
__________________
It isn't that they cant see the solution.
It is that they cant see the problem.
-G.K. Chesterton

No Bullshit no problems

My Blog- http://grim83.blogspot.com/
Grim83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2009, 11:37 PM   #18
chess315
Member
Brawn
Points: 929, Level: 16 Points: 929, Level: 16 Points: 929, Level: 16
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
 
chess315's Avatar
 

Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 82
Reputation: 11
chess315 is off to a bad start
Default

that is a very old comment but I dont think full body would be best if your goal was to squat a 1,000 and your were juicing his squat was more impressive becuase it was done with out modern epuipment
chess315 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2009, 11:41 PM   #19
BendtheBar
Bearded Beast of Duloc
Max Brawn
Points: 1,554,481, Level: 100 Points: 1,554,481, Level: 100 Points: 1,554,481, Level: 100
Activity: 49% Activity: 49% Activity: 49%
 
BendtheBar's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 80,907
Training Exp: 20+ years
Training Type: Powerbuilding
Fav Exercise: Deadlift
Fav Supp: Butter
Reputation: 2581830
BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chess315 View Post
that is a very old comment but I dont think full body would be best if your goal was to squat a 1,000 and your were juicing his squat was more impressive becuase it was done with out modern epuipment
My point was that guys like Reg Park, Paul Anderson and Doug Hepburn all trained on virtually full body routines. They were drug free, and had mammoth numbers. Anderson and Hepburn might have hit 1,000 without a squat suit if they juiced.
__________________
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Destroy That Which Destroys You

"Let bravery be thy choice, but not bravado."


BendtheBar is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2010, 01:39 PM   #20
Casey Butt
Member
New Brawn
Points: 3,198, Level: 34 Points: 3,198, Level: 34 Points: 3,198, Level: 34
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
 

Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 37
Reputation: 21682
Casey Butt is a dedicated contributorCasey Butt is a dedicated contributorCasey Butt is a dedicated contributorCasey Butt is a dedicated contributorCasey Butt is a dedicated contributorCasey Butt is a dedicated contributorCasey Butt is a dedicated contributorCasey Butt is a dedicated contributorCasey Butt is a dedicated contributorCasey Butt is a dedicated contributorCasey Butt is a dedicated contributor
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BendtheBar View Post
My point was that guys like Reg Park, Paul Anderson and Doug Hepburn all trained on virtually full body routines. They were drug free, and had mammoth numbers. Anderson and Hepburn might have hit 1,000 without a squat suit if they juiced.
Actually, many people have claimed Anderson Squat in excess of 1000 lbs as it was. There were no official records kept for the Squat back in those days, so they were gym lifts witnessed by other lifters. I tended to doubt it myself but a long time ago Tommy Kono told me in an email that Anderson could definitely Squat over 1000 lbs - he'd seen him do it and so did many others around in those days. I've read accounts from "witnesses" in the range of 1040 to 1200 (which was apparently not to parallel). I don't doubt it considering Anderson's size, build and other lifts. At either the 1964 or 1965 Powerlifting National Championships (the first two years they were held) Anderson is said to have took the winning Squat weight and did 10 reps with it - IIRC it was 660 lbs or so, set by Terry Todd. Of course, at that time Anderson was considered a professional and "banned" from amateur competition. Given an impromptu 660 x 10, it's not a big stretch to envision 1000 x 1 with a suit and dedicated training. In fairness to the split vs. full-body argument though, Anderson often performed the Squat by itself on a separate day.

It's often overlooked that heavyweight Olympic lifters have been Squatting in the 800 pound range for over 30 years - that's deep upright style, with no suit and just a small belt. It's quite likely that any of those lifters could have posted a 1000 lb Squat had they converted to "power" style and worn a suit (which they had no interest in doing). In fact, Hatfield wrote of visiting the USSR in the '80s and getting involved in a Squatting contest with a top Soviet Oly lifter (I can't recall who) who had little respect for his lifting prowess or sport. As I recall, they ended up in the 800 lb range, without suits, and called it a "draw".

Oly lifters train full-body practically at every session and use the Squat only as an assistance exercise, whereas Hatfield has been a long time advocate of split routines and a Squat specialist. So big lifts have been set with many different styles of training, it's impossible to determine what's "best" by looking at the numbers posted alone.

Last edited by Casey Butt; 01-07-2010 at 01:42 PM.
Casey Butt is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
body, full, fullbody, squat, workouts


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
how much leg work on full body workouts ? abett07 Muscle Building and Bodybuilding 24 09-27-2014 05:55 AM
Old School Full-Body Workouts BendtheBar Classic Lifters 10 07-07-2014 09:57 AM
Full body workouts for beginner Fire36 Muscle Building and Bodybuilding 7 06-12-2011 08:39 AM
so I tried full body workouts dildobaggins Muscle Building and Bodybuilding 34 11-28-2010 12:26 PM
Splits vs. Full Body Workouts swoleramon Muscle Building and Bodybuilding 5 07-06-2009 10:21 AM

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:09 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.