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Old 02-24-2013, 04:46 PM   #51
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Just guess I dont like the idea of increasing the sarcoplasm in my muscles, seems very superfitial considering all the hard work you put in.
I like the idea of gaining real bigger muscle fibres, but sarcoplasm does'nt appeal to me in the slightest.

Based on what you and the others have said, is there no avoiding it then?
Sorry. This statement was what I was replying to. It makes it seem you are personally worried and that the confusion you felt might impact you.

My point was that it will not. I personally think the whole sarcoplasmic thing is overblown, if not outright myth.

As to your latest question, sure you can lean one way or the other, but that doesn't mean it is the optimal way for anyone to grow in their early years. Much later people start to manipulate variables like reps for various responses.

And don't buy into the myth that powerlifters are stronger than bodybuilders. Google Franco Columbo, Jon Pall Sigmarsson, Stan Efferding, Matt Kroczlewski or whatever, etc. Those guys were both powerlifters and body builders. Some started out powerlifting and switched to bodybuilding, some were powerlifters and switched to body building. All were effing big and strong.

There are no weak bodybuilders and no small powerlifters. Each is marginally better at one or the other, but they are far more alike than different.
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Old 02-24-2013, 04:57 PM   #52
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Sorry. This statement was what I was replying to. It makes it seem you are personally worried and that the confusion you felt might impact you.

My point was that it will not. I personally think the whole sarcoplasmic thing is overblown, if not outright myth.

As to your latest question, sure you can lean one way or the other, but that doesn't mean it is the optimal way for anyone to grow in their early years. Much later people start to manipulate variables like reps for various responses.

And don't buy into the myth that powerlifters are stronger than bodybuilders. Google Franco Columbo, Jon Pall Sigmarsson, Stan Efferding, Matt Kroczlewski or whatever, etc. Those guys were both powerlifters and body builders. Some started out powerlifting and switched to bodybuilding, some were powerlifters and switched to body building. All were effing big and strong.

There are no weak bodybuilders and no small powerlifters. Each is marginally better at one or the other, but they are far more alike than different.

Well I said I didn't like the idea of it, I didn't mean I was worried about it anymore.
So based on that, 5x5 should be the best way to grow as a beginner?

I get what you mean about the myth about the hypertrophy too, I haven't found a single piece of scientific evidence to back it up, its all here-say, which is probably why I found it so confusing in the first place.
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Old 02-24-2013, 05:27 PM   #53
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The general feeling towards this topic
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Old 02-24-2013, 06:18 PM   #54
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I love Eliot, especially his music! However, he is also known for exaggerating to make a point, and he's in the market to sell his services and products. His advice is generally sound, but don't forget he's also out to make a buck at the end of the day. (and good for him, btw. I don't begrudge anyone anything).

That said, are you listening to what he's saying? It's not that different than what we're all saying.

The first video, he's pointing out that diet and fat burning is the way to make your muscles look harder. Nothing about reps and sets, etc. He even says he's trying to look harder himself as he looks a little puffy due to the layer of fat under his skin, and all he's ever done is low rep myofibular growth.

The second one he is saying be balanced have some low reps and some high reps, etc. to take advantage of both kinds of hypertrophy.

He does exagerate by comparing a lean hard powerlifter being stronger than a puffier bigger fellow, but don't take that as the sole basis for anything. He's trying to make a point that rep ranges do different things and to do both.

My personal opinion is that 5x5 is great for beginners, but so are a lot of routines. Beginners need to avoid extremes, they need a good amount of volume to both get a good base of strength to build on later, and to hone in on form since too many singles with poor form won't much help down the road. They also need to avoid too many high rep sets because they are pretty much only tiring themselves out and not sparking enough muscle fiber growth.

That said, any beginner will grow more matter what and you'll get bigger and stronger either way. It's just that a combination of high and low, or simply an emphasis on the middle rep range is typically the mst efficient for most people.
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Goals: 3/4/5
Goals beyond my wildest dreams, 600 Kg raw total, 200/160/240

Hack away at anything which isn't essential. Do what you love, and do it often. Fazc.

Everything competes for recovery so more assistance is not always the best idea. miked96
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Old 02-24-2013, 06:47 PM   #55
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What are your lifts now (squat/bench/dead)?
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Old 02-24-2013, 06:52 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by MikeM View Post
I love Eliot, especially his music! However, he is also known for exaggerating to make a point, and he's in the market to sell his services and products. His advice is generally sound, but don't forget he's also out to make a buck at the end of the day. (and good for him, btw. I don't begrudge anyone anything).

That said, are you listening to what he's saying? It's not that different than what we're all saying.

The first video, he's pointing out that diet and fat burning is the way to make your muscles look harder. Nothing about reps and sets, etc. He even says he's trying to look harder himself as he looks a little puffy due to the layer of fat under his skin, and all he's ever done is low rep myofibular growth.

The second one he is saying be balanced have some low reps and some high reps, etc. to take advantage of both kinds of hypertrophy.

He does exagerate by comparing a lean hard powerlifter being stronger than a puffier bigger fellow, but don't take that as the sole basis for anything. He's trying to make a point that rep ranges do different things and to do both.

My personal opinion is that 5x5 is great for beginners, but so are a lot of routines. Beginners need to avoid extremes, they need a good amount of volume to both get a good base of strength to build on later, and to hone in on form since too many singles with poor form won't much help down the road. They also need to avoid too many high rep sets because they are pretty much only tiring themselves out and not sparking enough muscle fiber growth.

That said, any beginner will grow more matter what and you'll get bigger and stronger either way. It's just that a combination of high and low, or simply an emphasis on the middle rep range is typically the mst efficient for most people.
Me too! and yeah the musics great
Hes been a strongman all his life, would that mean then that hes developed more myofibrillar growth or not?
Would his sarco growth not be very high I'm guessing? Just wondered.

5X5 Is what I'm on now and your right it seems like a happy medium.

By most efficient do you mean building an equal amount of both size and strength?
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Old 02-24-2013, 07:14 PM   #57
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No, I mean it will get you to a good base level of strength faster. That might mean equal stength and size for you, or it might not. Everybody is different. Most people will probably get relatively equal levels of size and strength, whatever that might mean to them personally.

But point being after a some time you see a trend and if it is one you like, then keep going. If you think higher reps would help you be bigger, try leaning toward more of those and see what happpens. If you feel lower reps would get you stronger, try leaning to more of those and see what happens.

My personal opinion is that you need a mix of both. But, everybody has to go through the stages to see what works for them.
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Best meet lifts: Sq 150 Kg (330 lb), Bench 120 Kg (264), DL 160 (352) @89 Kg (197)
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Goals: 3/4/5
Goals beyond my wildest dreams, 600 Kg raw total, 200/160/240

Hack away at anything which isn't essential. Do what you love, and do it often. Fazc.

Everything competes for recovery so more assistance is not always the best idea. miked96
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Old 02-24-2013, 07:29 PM   #58
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Obviously powerlifters are stronger than bodybuilders so surly that proves that your building more contractile muscle tissue doing low reps, and utilizing more myofibrillar hypertrophy.
Partly, but raw strength is also mainly a result of CNS activation. The trainable ability to actively recruit more motor units is the best way to get stronger...size is not as critical, but there is a correlation to muscle fiber cross sectional size and strength. I'd posit that the size followed the CNS improvements though and not the other way around.

The best competition bench press is just over 1000 lbs, but there is a story of a skinny rock climber who power pressed a boulder estimated at weighing over 1200 lbs.

How did he do it? He grabbed the rock wall and it broke loose and fell on him...he was sliding toward a cliff and a steep fall that would have killed him. He pushed the rock off and avoided the fall. Adrenalin and imminent death allowed him to recruit a massive amount of motor units and "unlock" the epic strength we all have. The consequence? He blew out almost every muscle, tendon and ligament in his upper body.
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Old 02-24-2013, 10:03 PM   #59
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Me too! and yeah the musics great
Hes been a strongman all his life, would that mean then that hes developed more myofibrillar growth or not?
Would his sarco growth not be very high I'm guessing? Just wondered.
He will have developed both I'm sure. To what extent? Who knows. It is said that dry muscle will make up approximately 80% of your size while fluid build-up will make up approximately 20% of your size.

If you have a major curiosity about this stuff, maybe study it in school. But building muscle and strength is more of an art than a science, which is just a fancy way of saying that you should do what works and not what scientific studies say is best. Just look for trends in the areas you want to enter; power lifters use lower reps and bodybuilders use higher reps. No matter what science says is best it will probably always be this way because it's been proven to work. We can argue it all day long but as they say, "The proof is in the pudding."
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Old 02-25-2013, 04:51 AM   #60
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all i know is when you are digging up all this sceince i am lifting weights and when i am not lifting i am resting and eating and growing, simple as. Look up the old school lifters they had alot of success doing this.
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