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Old 01-16-2013, 05:46 PM   #11
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i did not know that it was possible to add mass with out building strength well there you go i learn something new every day,well if that is true i know what i want from my efforts i want size plus the strength to back it up.
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Old 01-16-2013, 05:46 PM   #12
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I want it ALL !!!! To be Chiseled BEAST- Make women swoon and men be afraid - very afraid.

Of course, I am sure that my wife will tolerate none of this swooning business.
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Old 01-16-2013, 05:48 PM   #13
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I am a mod on IAs and only post here and there. I have regularly read almost all the boards starting with Animalkits, however long ago that was. This argument does seem to come up more on the drug boards so that may be what it is.
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Old 01-16-2013, 05:49 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by miked96 View Post
People get defensive when you talk about this subject and I dont understand why. Its just a question of training style. Why would people choose the one that only gives you the physical change?
Well, for competition purposes, that would make sense; or for someone that just wants to look good, especially if they have had low esteem due to their looks.

Both of those reasons would be very valid reasons for choosing to go the aesthetic route over the absolute strength route; I say absolute because even bb-ers are strong compared to most, if not all, that don't lift.
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Old 01-16-2013, 05:55 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by miked96 View Post
No problem at all with bodybuilding and wanting to look your best. I think we all do wether, we want to admit it or not. The arguments on many of the boards that I have read are wether you need to train heavy or actually be strong to gain significant muscle mass. I am just saying even if both sides are right. Why would you choose to only look the part? Why not have your cake and eat it too? Its obvious that you can.
I've interviewed and personally spoken to hundreds of pros. Never met a weak one yet.

I think the entire discussion of getting size without strength is a mute point. Many bodybuilders say they don't train for size, but then we hit the gym and they are just as strong as I am.

You can get ripped and have the appearance of size without much strength, and that is the way natural bodybuilding is moving, but that's not size.

Getting ripped with no muscle size isn't muscle building, it's food deprivation and not a sustainable lifestyle.
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Old 01-16-2013, 05:57 PM   #16
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I have always subscribed to, and lived for that matter, LtL's philosphy that size follows strength and along the way we learn the form. Only then would I consider "bodybuilding".
The longer I lift, the more I want both. Strength has to come first though unless you go down the assisted route. There are plenty of lifters at my gym who are sticking, lifting pathetic weights and getting bigger. Guess what happens when they come off though... Even the best assisted bodybuilders the good ones value being strong. Example:

http://youtu.be/PibFNBlYrUc
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Old 01-16-2013, 06:15 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by miked96 View Post
People get defensive when you talk about this subject and I dont understand why. Its just a question of training style. Why would people choose the one that only gives you the physical change?
I'll take a stab at this and say that when i first started lifting, I had NO intention of ever lifting heavy. I saw guys doing 400 lb squats and thought they were insane. Like jumping out of an airplane for the hell of it crazy. Why take a risk with a barbell in gym? Who cares about that?

I still was lifting to get the big guns and bulging muscles, mind you. I figured stay safe, take your time and look like a beast without any of the injuries.

I have since changed my mind on how much risk I am willing to take, but I do understand the fear of regularly jacking big weigghts. I still fear it. But, I like the feeling after succeeeding even more!

My guess is some guys haven't made that leap, or maybe just don't want to.

My .02
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Everything competes for recovery so more assistance is not always the best idea. miked96
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Old 01-16-2013, 07:44 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BendtheBar View Post
I've interviewed and personally spoken to hundreds of pros. Never met a weak one yet.

I think the entire discussion of getting size without strength is a mute point. Many bodybuilders say they don't train for size, but then we hit the gym and they are just as strong as I am.

You can get ripped and have the appearance of size without much strength, and that is the way natural bodybuilding is moving, but that's not size.

Getting ripped with no muscle size isn't muscle building, it's food deprivation and not a sustainable lifestyle.
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Originally Posted by LtL View Post
The longer I lift, the more I want both. Strength has to come first though unless you go down the assisted route. There are plenty of lifters at my gym who are sticking, lifting pathetic weights and getting bigger. Guess what happens when they come off though... Even the best assisted bodybuilders the good ones value being strong. Example:

Big Bad Baz Barraclough Benching 240kg for 2 Reps Completel - YouTube
I am not making myself clear. Totally agree with both of you. I have done considerable bodybuilding training (Dante Trudel and John Meadows trained me) and I know some bodybuilders are strong as hell. Thats not my argument. There is a school of thought that says weight does not matter. If you dont believe me google GH-15 or research what the naysayers say about DC training. For arguments sake, lets say there right. My question was why would someone who was interested in getting huge go that route, if they could be strong as well. I say again, I am not debating wether bodybuilders are strong or if you need to use progressive resistance.


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Originally Posted by MikeM View Post
I'll take a stab at this and say that when i first started lifting, I had NO intention of ever lifting heavy. I saw guys doing 400 lb squats and thought they were insane. Like jumping out of an airplane for the hell of it crazy. Why take a risk with a barbell in gym? Who cares about that?

G
I still was lifting to get the big guns and bulging muscles, mind you. I figured stay safe, take your time and look like a beast without any of the injuries.

I have since changed my mind on how much risk I am willing to take, but I do understand the fear of regularly jacking big weigghts. I still fear it. But, I like the feeling after succeeeding even more!

My guess is some guys haven't made that leap, or maybe just don't want to.

My .02
Thats a great point.
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Old 01-16-2013, 09:45 PM   #19
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I don't know why you wouldn't want both strength and muscle.
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Old 01-17-2013, 09:26 AM   #20
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I'll try to take a stab at what you're asking Mike. I think a lot of it comes down to the way people view the world today.

With the media, internet, and social networks it is so easy to find people that look like they are strong. Your average joe would love to look like that, and they see all the advertisements "lose x amount of weight this fast" or "gain x pounds of muslce in this short time without touching weights" and it fuels the idea that you can get what you want without having to work for it.

Today most average people look for the shortest route to success, and when you look at the body as the end goal the shortest amount to success is doing as little work as possible. So I believe that is why you see a lot of people saying they want to look strong without ever having to move the weight necessary be strong.
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