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Old 04-01-2012, 04:20 PM   #71
Fazc
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Originally Posted by MVP View Post
This was once again my statement from the get-go.
I think you're now starting to reason these things out more clearly. I don't have to quote you as it is clear to anyone who's reading this that what you're saying now is far removed from what you were saying from the get-go and on top of that you clearly have not listened to anyone who disagreed with your stance. But your ego has been offended (by me in particularly apparently! go me!) and you've worked yourself into a corner now because you want to 'win' this debate with me. As a result I'm still not fully convinced you've listened or rather your focus is now on 'winning' an online debate rather than trying to actually better yourself with knowledge that is being given to you here.

I however have no interest in 'winning' or 'losing' on online debate with you. All I was ever interested in was answering the question which you asked. Giving you what you needed to hear, rather than what you wanted to hear. Also not allowing the passing on misinformation on diet and training. The jury is still out on whether you will listen, and time will play that one out

I will end by saying this, you are at a very knowledgeable and helpful forum with a lot of strong and experienced people. You have to bear in mind all of the people in this thread who have tried to help you, whom you have argued back with have spent their time on you. It would be in your best interests to listen thoughtfully to the advice you're given, if nothing else then out of respect of the time people are putting in to help you.
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Old 04-01-2012, 04:29 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by Fazc View Post
I think you're now starting to reason these things out more clearly. I don't have to quote you as it is clear to anyone who's reading this that what you're saying now is far removed from what you were saying from the get-go and on top of that you clearly have not listened to anyone who disagreed with your stance. But your ego has been offended (by me in particularly apparently! go me!) and you've worked yourself into a corner now because you want to 'win' this debate with me. As a result I'm still not fully convinced you've listened or rather your focus is now on 'winning' an online debate rather than trying to actually better yourself with knowledge that is being given to you here.
This isn't the WWE. This is a forum. I'm not sure how one would "win" or "lose". I'm glad you are happy that you offended someone.

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I however have no interest in 'winning' or 'losing' on online debate with you. All I was ever interested in was answering the question which you asked. Giving you what you needed to hear, rather than what you wanted to hear. Also not allowing the passing on misinformation on diet and training. The jury is still out on whether you will listen, and time will play that one out
I have listened to you. Everything you said. In a way you are right, but I just didn't like the way you said what you said.

You nit picked about my bench press goal and how much I was squatting my previous session. That has nothing to do with my diet goals.

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I will end by saying this, you are at a very knowledgeable and helpful forum with a lot of strong and experienced people. You have to bear in mind all of the people in this thread who have tried to help you, whom you have argued back with have spent their time on you. It would be in your best interests to listen thoughtfully to the advice you're given, if nothing else then out of respect of the time people are putting in to help you.
You're the only person I argued with.

You're acting like I'm some type of newbie with no understanding of what I'm doing.

Cutting isn't all about cutting calories, by the way. Fat can only be stored when insulin is produced. Insulin is only produced when consuming carbs. The definition of insulin is, its a fat storage hormone.

My diet previously was all about cutting carbs. Cutting glucose and losing water weight, then getting down to breaking down fat storage.

There's more than one way to cook an egg.
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Old 04-01-2012, 04:43 PM   #73
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Excuse-a-saurus,

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Originally Posted by MVP View Post
I'm glad you are happy that you offended someone.
Actually I didn't offend you. Rather you took offence because you were challenged.

Quote:
I have listened to you. Everything you said. In a way you are right, but I just didn't like the way you said what you said.
I know, that is clear to see.

However you are getting increasingly personal in your messages back to me. So on that note I suggest that we end this 'back and forth' here.

Quote:
Cutting isn't all about cutting calories, by the way. Fat can only be stored when insulin is produced. Insulin is only produced when consuming carbs. The definition of insulin is, its a fat storage hormone.
This however, would certainly be topic for a new thread!
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Old 04-01-2012, 04:47 PM   #74
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C'mon lads. That's enough. Can't we just go and lift?
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Old 04-01-2012, 04:51 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by Fazc View Post
Actually I didn't offend you. Rather you took offence because you were challenged.
You said you offended me in your "yay me!" response.

I wasn't challenged in any type of actual science or nutrition debate.

If you would like debate physiology or nutritional methods, I would be glad to do so.

Your debate started with referring to me as an excuse-a-saurus. Stating I was making excuses not to do the hard or logical thing.

Quote:
However you are getting increasingly personal in your messages back to me. So on that note I suggest that we end this 'back and forth' here.
I never said anything personal to you. I didn't attack your bench goal, squat weight, or what you may consider impressive, or your certs if you have any.

If you would like to end this discussion, cheers.

Quote:
This however, would certainly be topic for a new thread!
What would?
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Old 04-01-2012, 04:54 PM   #76
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C'mon lads. That's enough. Can't we just go and lift?
I think that'd be a good idea. This is starting to get increasingly ridiculous
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Old 04-01-2012, 04:55 PM   #77
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I think that'd be a good idea. This is starting to get increasingly ridiculous
Finally, we agree on something.
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Old 04-01-2012, 05:04 PM   #78
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Cutting isn't all about cutting calories, by the way.
Agreed--to a point only, and dependent upon which individual we are speaking about and their personal circumstances.

There are other dietary manipulations that can be created through diet to bring about certain type of responses, and responses when confronted with a weight reduction complication, but in the end, it does in deed bottom line on the calories and in some cases the content of those calories (pointing to macro manipulation). This is assumes a healthy individual and non-diabetic or other metabolic disorder.


Quote:
Insulin is only produced when consuming carbs.
This statement is false. For example: look up what consumption of Alcohol does (and lets assume a very low carb type variety). Look up what type responses an individual can get when just consuming protein and no other macros.

Quote:
The definition of insulin is, its a fat storage hormone.
This is generally the name tag that insulin obtains. However, Insulin is a multitasking hormone and has MANY important functions other than a storing duties. Without insulin, the cells in our bodies would not be able to process the glucose and therefore have no energy for movement, growth, repair, or other functions. Insulin is key to unlocking the door of the cell to allow the glucose to be transferred from the bloodstream into the cell. As you can see, its not only a storage hormone. Therefore Insulin assists with shuttling bodily nutrients through the cell structure within the body.

Insulin is one of the most misunderstood hormones and gets a bad rap it doesn't deserve.

Just wanted to clear that up.

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Old 04-01-2012, 05:18 PM   #79
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This statement is false. For example: look up what consumption of Alcohol does (and lets assume a very low carb type variety). Look up what type responses an individual can get when just consuming protein and no other macros.
The statement about carbs and insulin was in reference to glucose.

Protein too can be converted to glucose, but when this happens it generates ammonia, which is very toxic to the body. The ammonia then must be sent to the liver to be excreted as urea through urine during high protein turnover, often resulting in the body not being properly hydrated.

The point of the message was that a high fat diet will not result in the absorption of fat since the body has minimal glucose and insulin.

In regards to the calories and fat storage, what about butter? Butter is ONLY used for energy.

Quote:
This is generally the name tag that insulin obtains. However, Insulin is a multitasking hormone and has MANY important functions other than a storing duties. Without insulin, the cells in our bodies would not be able to process the glucose and therefore have no energy for movement, growth, repair, or other functions. Insulin is key to unlocking the door of the cell to allow the glucose to be transferred from the bloodstream into the cell. As you can see, its not only a storage hormone. Therefore Insulin assists with shuttling bodily nutrients through the cell structure within the body.
When glucose is stored, it is stored as glycogen, which is a polar molecule. Polar molecules hold excessive water at the site of nutrient exchange. If I'm not mistaken, it's 4g of water for every 1g of glycogen. This is another factor that holds to glucose/glycogen and weight gain...even if it's water weight.

I am talking specifically about a ketogenic style diet. You will consume indirect carbs pretty much regardless of what you do.

My post wasn't in reference to what and all insulin does, it was pointing out that without insulin, the body could not store fat.
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Old 04-01-2012, 05:19 PM   #80
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Sorry I wasn't clear. MVP referred to me as the black star wars guy in a previous post. I thought it was funny.
I don't so much see you as a Sith Lord, as I do the Black knight from Monty Python.


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You just said that it was your goal to be just like me, but until that time you were going to spend the kids inheritance by flying all over kingdom come.
Thats not too far from the truth, as far as flying all over the place goes.

I'm back and forth between Atlanta, and Houston on a pretty much weekly basis.
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