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Old 03-22-2012, 12:14 PM   #1
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Old 03-22-2012, 12:15 PM   #2
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An overused excuse.
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Old 03-22-2012, 12:16 PM   #3
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An overused excuse.
Sums it up.
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Old 03-22-2012, 12:22 PM   #4
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Let's talk overreaching instead of overtraining. Overreaching - not necessary to push it to that level for 99% of recreational lifters because their goals do not require it. Therefore, a very misguided fear and an overused term.

In the "bro sense", as overtraining is presented on forums 99% of the time, it goes like this:

Quote:
Dude, 15 sets for chest is overtraining.
Is it overtraining? Probably not. Does this mean "bros" should still do it? Probably not.

Training volume and intensity has to be based on a lifter's current goals, progress history, etc. There are things advanced bodybuilders and powerlifters do that would be considered overtraining by most. Just because it's not overtraining for an advanced lifter doesn't mean it's a tool that is required for the other 99% of the lifting pool.

Most newbs do way too much extra work that isn't needed. Overtraining? No. Wasted time and energy? Yes.
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Old 03-22-2012, 12:29 PM   #5
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It exists for sure but not at the level people think and it is certainly nowhere near the boogeyman that McRobert* and Mentzer suggest it is. It seems as if you would have to push to the limit of your abilities for a reasonably long time to achieve it and frankly, few people have the mentality to do that.

As Steve and Fazc consistently point out (and Steve on the post above), overreaching is more common and is something that can be alleviated by common sense programming.

*Incidentally, I recently read that McRobert thinks a 300 bench, 400 squat and 500 dead is almost the maximum limit for a 'hardgainer'.
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Old 03-22-2012, 04:05 PM   #6
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*Incidentally, I recently read that McRobert thinks a 300 bench, 400 squat and 500 dead is almost the maximum limit for a 'hardgainer'.
You would be WRONG. McRobert stated that ANYBODY should be able to reach those numbers in a few years if training properly. Nowhere does he say those are maximums; more like a minimum.

It's usually the anti-hardgainers that come up with that crap about McRobert. He says that overtraining is possible and there are ways to avoid it. No different than the messages spoken by Simmons, Wendler, Starr, and hundreds of others. People just like to pick on Stuart; he's an easy target.

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Old 03-22-2012, 07:43 PM   #7
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*Incidentally, I recently read that McRobert thinks a 300 bench, 400 squat and 500 dead is almost the maximum limit for a 'hardgainer'.
Off Road commented on this, but McRobert actually stated those are reasonable goals.

The "Hardgainer" title aside, most of us are far more McRobert than we are Weider. McRobert was for simplicity, basic exercises, progression, etc. for the average Joe. I think for 99% of the lifting community, meaning guys who have no interest in reaching advanced bodybuilding or powerlifting stages, McRobert provides very reasonable solutions.

I think we all know that the average forum member hasn't made any real progress, isn't focused on progression, isn't focused on the big lifts, etc. Most of my programs for men this level are pretty much in the same flavor as McRobert.

Things are changing rapidly on the Internet, but for the most part the average Joe still thinks a 5 day split with 82 exercises per day is the way to go.
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Old 03-22-2012, 12:19 PM   #8
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overtraining = undereating
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Old 03-22-2012, 12:28 PM   #9
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I disagree partially with the above opinions.

To me overtraining is very easy, especially for those who are overly-motivated to lift and get stronger. Like the newbs that lift chest 5 days a week, and wonder why the muscle isn't growing. Lifting causes damage, we all know that. It's the repairs that make the muscle bigger and stronger. Too much damage though, and the muscle doesn't get a chance to ever recover.

I don't think saying it's the same as undereating is a good thought, mainly because if someone hears that, takes it the wrong way, then they start eating the wrong food, just to keep eating for calories.
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Old 03-22-2012, 12:44 PM   #10
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I disagree partially with the above opinions.
Like the newbs that lift chest 5 days a week, and wonder why the muscle isn't growing. Lifting causes damage, we all know that. It's the repairs that make the muscle bigger and stronger. Too much damage though, and the muscle doesn't get a chance to ever recover.

I don't think saying it's the same as undereating is a good thought, mainly because if someone hears that, takes it the wrong way, then they start eating the wrong food, just to keep eating for calories.
Newbs also use retarded training protocols, terrible nutrition so yea that could lead to overtraining.
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