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Old 11-23-2011, 10:12 AM   #1
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For those of you who have been following my log, you know that I’ve been doing an Upper/Lower split for the past year. I started out doing muscletrainerdh’s DULS routine then tweaked it to include Deadlift and OHP (B4ULS).

I have enjoyed both routines and I am very satisfied with the results, but I feel it's time to try some other forms of training. The options I have considered are: Reeves, 5-3-1 and Madcow. I’m not limiting myself to these choices but would like some input as to which routine might be a good fit for me. (I have done none of those mentioned, but I do have the 5-3-1 e-book.)

Long Term Goals:
Get bigger and stronger (duh!)
I plan to keep bulking to a target weight of 220-225.

Short(er) Term Goals:
Squat: 315 … (now repping 245)
Deadlift: 350 … (now repping 235)
Bench: 250 … (now repping 205)
OHP: 135 … (now repping 75+)

Please let me know what you think, and feel free to ask me anything.
If you think these goals are too modest, let me know that too.
I plan to start the new routine at the top of the new year.

Jim

Edit: Here's a link to my log for anyone who doesn't know me.
http://muscleandbrawn.com/forums/tra...-stronger.html
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Old 11-23-2011, 10:36 AM   #2
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hay T-Bone , im pretty new around these parts so havent had the chance to follow your log , just yet...

i agree that you need to shake things up every now and then but only progression on the current program has stalled...too many people are switching after 8-12 weeks..

for me i have only tried the 5/3/1 from your shortlist above and found it a very solid program. in 5 cycles i have made some great gains in my big 4 lifts

that said i have read great things about Madcow and Reeves



good luck with whichever you chose!
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Old 11-23-2011, 10:40 AM   #3
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I think you could make great progress on all 3 programs, but I would like to see you testing yourself as much as possible right now. I think your deadlift has room to grow, your bench has a good base, and your squats are only a bit away from that 315 mark. (Which is a good place to be)

You will get some varying opinions, and they will be good choices. Here's mine...I would like to see you attempting some form of semi-linear progression, but keeping it goal driven.

Instead of adding weight every week like Madcow, or adding weight every month like Wendler, I would like to see you get into the trenches and grind out a group of sets with the same weight, using a target rep goal.

This allows you to push yourself and only focus on "one more rep" per set. You will climb the strength ladder, but at the pace your body wants to climb at any given workout. This is how I trained, and I am rather partial to it.

Pick a weight for a lift...say squats. Perform 3 sets using this weight, stopping the sets when you feel like form is going to heck. When you can perform 20-25 reps total for the 3 sets, add weight the next time in the gym.

The rep goal "number" can be lift specific and tailored to each lift.

This could be structured into an upper/lower or 3 day fullbody. Or even a 2 day per week Christy approach.

What I like about this style of training is that every set/rep counts, and you have defined goals. You add weight when you can, focusing on the very short term goal (the next set) instead of the next heavy day which might be 3 weeks away.

Just one man's opinion. There are many ways to cross the river. Ultimately you are the only one that can decide which suits your needs best.
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Old 11-23-2011, 11:19 AM   #4
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Bookmarked...short on time right now...
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Old 11-23-2011, 03:36 PM   #5
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I persoanally love Wendler's 5/3/1, but it really fits my goals. My goals are to keep working out for years to come, without injuring myself, and make slow but steady progress. Plus, I really like to keep things simple.

Now if I was younger and feeling a bit more rushed to make progress, or had a little more room to make some quick progress, I would probably use a basic routine structure but I would use quick linear cycles. I would keep the cycles short, like 4 to 6 weeks, culminating in PRs at the end of each cycle.

The quick cycles gives your body enough time to super-compensate and not reach overtraining. But they are short enough to really keep progress chugging along while you still have it in you to do so. It was such a great way to train.

An example:

Say you squat 245 x 5 right now. You'd take 3 to 4 weeks to work back up to 245 x 5 and a 3 or 4 weeks to surpass it. Then you'd drop the weight and work back up again...

Cycle 1
Week 1 215 x 5
Week 2 225 x 5
Week 3 235 x 5 (start eating!)
Week 4 245 x 5 (old PR)
Week 5 255 x 5
Week 6 265 x 5
Week 7 275 x 4 (fail, start over)

Cycle 2
Week 1 225 x 5
Week 2 235 x 5
Week 3 245 x 5
Week 4 255 x 5
Week 5 265 x 5
Week 6 275 x 5
Week 7 285 x 4 (fail, start over)

You get the idea...
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Old 11-23-2011, 04:18 PM   #6
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All good suggestions so far, I would suggest a full body routine with the emphasis on strength for high rep ranges. A H/L/M split using a variety of rep ranges from 5's, to 10's to 15's.
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Old 11-23-2011, 06:30 PM   #7
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Thanks for the responses. All the options offered look good, but I have a few comments/questions.

@markievicz, thanks for the PM, I'll definitely consider your suggestion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BendtheBar View Post
Instead of adding weight every week like Madcow, or adding weight every month like Wendler, I would like to see you get into the trenches and grind out a group of sets with the same weight, using a target rep goal.
I like the sound of this. My heart has been telling me this for awhile. I imagine I could keep my same schedule, but cater the rep ranges to this style. Would I need to cut back on some of my assistance work?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Off Road View Post

An example:

Say you squat 245 x 5 right now. You'd take 3 to 4 weeks to work back up to 245 x 5 and a 3 or 4 weeks to surpass it. Then you'd drop the weight and work back up again...

Cycle 1
Week 1 215 x 5
Week 2 225 x 5
Week 3 235 x 5 (start eating!)
Week 4 245 x 5 (old PR)
Week 5 255 x 5
Week 6 265 x 5
Week 7 275 x 4 (fail, start over)

Cycle 2
Week 1 225 x 5
Week 2 235 x 5
Week 3 245 x 5
Week 4 255 x 5
Week 5 265 x 5
Week 6 275 x 5
Week 7 285 x 4 (fail, start over)

You get the idea...
I understand this, but how many sets are we talking about here for each week? And would you do this same breakdown for bench, DL and OHP?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fazc View Post
All good suggestions so far, I would suggest a full body routine with the emphasis on strength for high rep ranges. A H/L/M split using a variety of rep ranges from 5's, to 10's to 15's.
Fazc, Do you have a link for an example of this routine?
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Old 11-23-2011, 06:34 PM   #8
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I haven't written much on it but I trained like that for some three years while I was recovering from a hamstring injury. Something like this:

Heavy Day 3 sets of 10 (3 min rest)

Bench Press
Bent Row
Squat
Seated Press
Curl

Light Day 3-4 sets of 15 (1 min rest)

Pullovers
DB Bench
DB Press
DB Row
Leg Extension
Leg Curl

Medium Day 3 sets of 12 (2 min)

Standing Press
Deadlift
Chins
CGBP
Curl

That simple routine worked very well for mass.
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Old 11-23-2011, 07:24 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T-Bone View Post
Fazc, Do you have a link for an example of this routine?
Here is a link to an article that contains a write up for a "20 Rep Squat H/L/M routine":Forget Steroids: 5 Full Body Workouts For Serious Gains | Muscle & Strength
The author is Steve Shaw, you may have heard of him...

I believe this routine is along the same lines of what Fazc is suggesting. I have used this routine and I thought it was pretty good. I definitely think it is a style of training that is worth trying for yourself.
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Old 11-23-2011, 07:33 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fazc View Post
I haven't written much on it but I trained like that for some three years while I was recovering from a hamstring injury. Something like this:

Heavy Day 3 sets of 10 (3 min rest)

Bench Press
Bent Row
Squat
Seated Press
Curl

Light Day 3-4 sets of 15 (1 min rest)

Pullovers
DB Bench
DB Press
DB Row
Leg Extension
Leg Curl

Medium Day 3 sets of 12 (2 min)

Standing Press
Deadlift
Chins
CGBP
Curl

That simple routine worked very well for mass.
I like the looks of that too. Too many good choices T-Bone.
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