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Old 09-07-2011, 07:50 AM   #21
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Actually, if you go on Sherdog Forums (which is an MMA forum) a lot of the guys over there follow the same strength training routines that we follow/advocate.
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Old 09-07-2011, 08:08 AM   #22
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I'm sure people do all kinds of stuff, that doesn't really detract or add to anyone's point of view.

My point is, all else being equal, stronger is better than weaker.

Squats do a better job of strengthening than Lunges. Ergo, squats are the better choice.


If you have a counter argument to that, I would genuinely like to hear it. Otherwise there's nothing that's been presented in this thread which counters what I just said apart from "this is better 'cos I say so and some others agree" and that doesn't really cut it.
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Old 09-07-2011, 09:48 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Fazc View Post
My point is, all else being equal, stronger is better than weaker.

Squats do a better job of strengthening than Lunges. Ergo, squats are the better choice.
Isn't that just basic logic?
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Old 09-07-2011, 10:38 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Fazc View Post
Seriously, you'd pick Lunges over Squats if you're into cage fighting?

Kinda think we're missing the woods for the tree's here.
If I could only pick one or the other, yes.
Balance and stability is more important than strength in relation to most sports.
I'd rather be the man with a modest squat and a rock solid base so I can't be taken down.

Last edited by ILoveLifting; 09-07-2011 at 10:58 AM.
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Old 09-07-2011, 10:57 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Wlfdg View Post
Isn't that just basic logic?
One would think so.

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Originally Posted by Ilovelifting
Balance and stability is more important than strength in relation to most sports.
I want to preface this by saying I am genuinely trying to understand your point here and not to be rude. But from where I am standing, I really can't wrap my head around what you're saying.

I said with all things being equal, a stronger fighter is a better one. You disagreed with the premise, stating that balance and stability is more important ergo you'd rather do Lunges. My question is why does it have to be one or the other?

This is the lifting equivalent of saying 'focus on form, not weight!'. Which as we all know is absolute bollocks. You can lift a barbell with such fine form that it would make the Mona Lisa cry, but if you don't add some weight to the bar you get nowhere. In the same way balance and stability is fine, but without the force to back it up, you'd get mullered in the ring.

Balance & stability when someone is trying to throw you onto the ground comes from strength! So again why ignore such a good strengthening exercise for the legs in favour of such a poor one to strengthen your legs?

Again not trying to come across rude or argumentative here, but I really can't see how you can disagree with; all other factors being equal, stronger is better.
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Old 09-07-2011, 11:27 AM   #26
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One would think so.



I want to preface this by saying I am genuinely trying to understand your point here and not to be rude. But from where I am standing, I really can't wrap my head around what you're saying.
In regard to fighting, balance and stability should precede strength work, and most all sports for that matter, especially cage fighting. I'd rather be the man with modest squat and a rock solid base, so that I can't be taken down. "Sport specific" training is what ALL universities teach. You can research and find that most of their training is around unilateral movements(using only one side of the body at a time) which build stength, balance, and stability. Not just primarily strength. Remember Royce Grace?
I said with all things being equal, a stronger fighter is a better one. You disagreed with the premise, stating that balance and stability is more important ergo you'd rather do Lunges. My question is why does it have to be one or the other?
OK, this is were we have an issue. I don't recall you saying everything equal: equal poundage lifted, equat amount of focus on the various facets of strength, equal size, etc,etc. That would be impossible to argue with. The discussion was "functional strength". I was simply stating that there are better way to train for a stronger punch than flat out squatting, only. I never said to completely disregaurd big bilateral exercises(squat,deads). There are many more compenents to functional training if done correctly. By no means was I trying to say that the bilateral moves don't have their place. Sorry if I was unclear.
This is the lifting equivalent of saying 'focus on form, not weight!'. Which as we all know is absolute bollocks. You can lift a barbell with such fine form that it would make the Mona Lisa cry, but if you don't add some weight to the bar you get nowhere. In the same way balance and stability is fine, but without the force to back it up, you'd get mullered in the ring.
You'll find that I believe this is furthest from the truth. I believe in hard word, hard work and more hard work.
Balance & stability when someone is trying to throw you onto the ground comes from strength! So again why ignore such a good strengthening exercise for the legs in favour of such a poor one to strengthen your legs?
I'd completely disagree. I've seen tank abbott(who can bench 600lbs) get thrown around like a little b!tch, by much smaller men. Many of the greatest fighters aren't the biggest and the strongest.
Again not trying to come across rude or argumentative here, but I really can't see how you can disagree with; [I]

all other factors being equal, stronger is better.[/I]
This I agree with 100% The only problem is that it's very rare to find this case. Ill stand behind my original statement "the athlete with the best balance and stability" will be better than the man that is ONLY stronger
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Old 09-07-2011, 11:47 AM   #27
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Ilovelifting, thanks! That was a good answer I could learn something from!

There are a few points I can agree with, I don't know enough about the sport to carry on this debate though.
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Old 09-07-2011, 02:29 PM   #28
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The balance and stability developed from doing lunges is specific to lunges.
The balance and stability involved in combat sports is specific to the movement patterns involved.
All are best served by increasing absolute strength.

If I learned anything from 40yrs of martial arts and combat sports it's that ^.
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