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-   -   Pre-Post Nutrition and Digestion (http://www.muscleandbrawn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5075)

bamazav 01-06-2011 04:14 PM

Pre-Post Nutrition and Digestion
 
Reading Rich's Cardio link (http://muscleandbrawn.com/forums/gen...catabolic.html) got me to thinking about the normal thought process about pre and post nutrition.

Let me say up front. I AM NOT a nutritionist.

If it takes 24 - 72 hours to digest whole foods, are we not, for the most part, training off our previous day's nutrition? Understanding, a little any way, absorption rates, would not a liquid pre meal be available faster then whole foods? Would it not be wiser, in the scheme of bulking for instance, to put more focus on our off day diet then on our training day diet?

I like to think through and outside the box. This is an area I really would love to see addressed more clearly.

CoopDawg 01-06-2011 05:02 PM

You will get some good replies on this i believe, and i stand with ya on sometimes liquid is better, but no liquid can make me feel like a 24 oz. steak will, BUT IT IS BETTER AT TIMES, due to as you said digestion rate

Rich Knapp 01-06-2011 05:04 PM

1. Remember digestion/absorption takes place from time into your mouth till time it hits the toilet. (hitting toilet is the 24-72 point)
2. Liquids digest and are absorbed way faster. SO yes a pre work out protein shake and maybe liquid amino's is always a good thing.

Thats why a liquid vrs a tablet for sups, the liquid is always recommended and better.

BendtheBar 01-06-2011 05:07 PM

I've read quite a bit on information on this topic, but it's hard to me to lay it all out intelligently...as it's not something I obsess much about.

I do know that most intra and post-workout nutrition is set up to address immediate needs, as well as to facilitate recovery. Basically it's structured to maximize recovery and rebound.

Most bodybuilders I know obsess about every meal and turn it into a science, so to your point, I think many already do think about meals the day before. They are constantly trying to maximize performance and gains.

Most try to cover their bases by keeping a steady stream of slow-digesting proteins throughout the day, and taking in fast digesting protein at key times, such as post-workout. Many intra-workout supps exist as well to address immediately carb, protein/amino needs.

I drink whey during a workout instead of a BCAA supplement like Xtend to keep a steady, but small stream of protein in my system during a workout. I also drink a liquid pre-workout with a banana (while not cutting).

Sorry for this hodge podge post. I need to organize my thoughts on this issue a bit better.

Where's Brad Borland when you need him....

Rich Knapp 01-06-2011 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoopDawg (Post 104328)
You will get some good replies on this i believe, and i stand with ya on sometimes liquid is better, but no liquid can make me feel like a 24 oz. steak will, BUT IT IS BETTER AT TIMES, due to as you said digestion rate


Whole foods your body has to break them down before your body can fully start to absorb the nutrients. FATS major slow this down. This is were the full feeling last longer with a steak vrs a protein shake.

That were/why you also can eat fats with a whey protein shake and slow it down to be same as a casein pro shake.

Rich Knapp 01-06-2011 05:17 PM

A good read for basics is "Franco Calumbo's book on bbing nutrition" for his time he was way ahead and the way he explains it it holds true today for the basics. He explains things in a way anyone can understand it.
http://images.booksamillion.com/cove...09254573_l.gif

Rich Knapp 01-06-2011 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bamazav (Post 104315)
Reading Rich's Cardio link (http://muscleandbrawn.com/forums/gen...catabolic.html) got me to thinking about the normal thought process about pre and post nutrition.

Let me say up front. I AM NOT a nutritionist.
.

lol Ya that is Eric Helm's specialty and were he has degreages in. Thats a minor detailed wright up compared to some of them. lol The guy is a nutrition freak and mind blowing in bbing info. He's up there with Lane Norton.

bamazav 01-06-2011 06:01 PM

Thank to all some great info. Rather then trying to respond to each post individually, let me just ramble for a moment.

Most of what you read, in this modern era, focuses on the immediate time before and after training. BTB, your point is well taken and what I have experienced personally. The benefits of pre and post nutrition is for post training recovery. However, much of what you read sounds like if you do not eat a chicken breast and sweet potato an hour before training (BTW, I don't workout, I train... another story) you will end up like the RB at USC with a barbell stuck on your throat. Even the talk of protein synthesis seems to imply that if you don't have protein within milliseconds of your last rep you will wither up and die. I appreciate Layne Norton, Alan Aragon and others who seem to think and write logically concerning pre and post nutrition. Sorry to ramble, but this is an issue that I am really interested in learn about. It will not only help me in my own training, but also the seniors I am working with each week.

I think I have an electronic version of that book Rich, I will have to read it.

Abaddon 01-06-2011 11:58 PM

Great thread!

Carl1174 01-07-2011 04:35 AM

I AM NOT a nutritionist either, but I have always worked on the assumption that you want an empty stomach (not fasted) but nothing actually in the gut while training as more blood will be directed away from the muscles to the gut to aid in digestion, so eating about 2-3 hours before works best for me.

On the point of having to have something the minute you finish your workout goes i think that is over egged a little by the sup companies. If you have a good amount of protein (and good quality protein at that) in your system from your diet then your amino acid levels should be OK for the workout. post workout, get you shake in within about 30 mins or so and then a good meal (carbs/protein/fats) about an hour to two hours after that.

As far as eating when not training the only difference to my diet really is that I dont have the PWO shake (obviously) and thats about it. i workout first thing in the morning, so i dont have time for food before hand and I literally cant train if I eat before hand (so within 30-45 mins before). I therefore sip some BCAA's and/or whey whilst training then have a good shake afterwards, then about an hour after than i have breakfast as normal and start my meals for the day from there.

Its logical to have more calories on training days as you expend more, but then you grow on the non training days too so IMO the calories are just as important then... just my 2p worth

Carl.


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