Muscle and Brawn Forums
 

Go Back   Muscle and Brawn Forums > Training > General Fitness & Health
Mark Forums Read
Register Articles Members List Search Today's Posts

Notices

General Fitness & Health Discuss general fitness. conditioning and health topics.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 10-05-2013, 03:19 PM   #1
JumpmanRugs
Senior Member
Max Brawn
Points: 2,181, Level: 28 Points: 2,181, Level: 28 Points: 2,181, Level: 28
Activity: 1% Activity: 1% Activity: 1%
 
JumpmanRugs's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 531
Training Exp: 4 years
Training Type: ARGH!!!
Fav Exercise: Squat / Deadlift
Fav Supp: Motivation
Reputation: 10351
JumpmanRugs is a dedicated contributorJumpmanRugs is a dedicated contributorJumpmanRugs is a dedicated contributorJumpmanRugs is a dedicated contributorJumpmanRugs is a dedicated contributorJumpmanRugs is a dedicated contributorJumpmanRugs is a dedicated contributorJumpmanRugs is a dedicated contributorJumpmanRugs is a dedicated contributorJumpmanRugs is a dedicated contributorJumpmanRugs is a dedicated contributor
Default Lower back pain after Squats / Deads

I'm struggling with lower back pain at the moment, normally after squatting, later in the day after deadlifts (Not always, but sometimes) and sometimes after basketball.

I don't work my abs very often really, as for a few months now I have relied on my deadlifts, squats etc to do that, but I have done a lot more back work and heavier now that I am thinking about it, perhaps this has attributed to it and I've created muscular imbalances?

What do you guys think?

Tight hips? Weak abs compared to my back?

Any thoughts?
JumpmanRugs is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 10-05-2013, 03:39 PM   #2
big_swede
Senior Member
Max Brawn
Points: 34,215, Level: 100 Points: 34,215, Level: 100 Points: 34,215, Level: 100
Activity: 62% Activity: 62% Activity: 62%
 
big_swede's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: sweden
Posts: 12,009
Training Exp: 5
Training Type: Strongman
Fav Exercise: Cable flyes
Fav Supp: Celltech
Reputation: 480503
big_swede is one with Crom!big_swede is one with Crom!big_swede is one with Crom!big_swede is one with Crom!big_swede is one with Crom!big_swede is one with Crom!big_swede is one with Crom!big_swede is one with Crom!big_swede is one with Crom!big_swede is one with Crom!big_swede is one with Crom!
Default

Do plancs to work your core, 5x1:00 min or so a couple of times a week. And either over-arch or round when squatting.
__________________
big_swede is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2013, 04:35 PM   #3
bamazav
Bigger, Stronger, BAMA!
Max Brawn
Points: 26,424, Level: 97 Points: 26,424, Level: 97 Points: 26,424, Level: 97
Activity: 7% Activity: 7% Activity: 7%
 
bamazav's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
Posts: 4,982
Training Exp: 5
Training Type: ARGH!!!
Fav Exercise: Squats
Fav Supp: Deadlifts
Reputation: 222686
bamazav is a master memberbamazav is a master memberbamazav is a master memberbamazav is a master memberbamazav is a master memberbamazav is a master memberbamazav is a master memberbamazav is a master memberbamazav is a master memberbamazav is a master memberbamazav is a master member
Default

Yup. A pelvic tilt either forward or backward can cause lower back pain. Tilts are often the result of an imbalance. If you do a lot of quad dominate work, you should throw in some Hamstring and glute work. I would also advise taking a few days off of squats and deads to let your back recouperate. One other thing I have done is alternate variations of both deads and squats, this will take some of stress off of the lower back.
__________________
David, Husband, Father, Pastor
(Yasen Miroslav Zavadil)

Meet Maxes: Gym Maxes:
Squat 308 315
Bench 176 185 This WILL change!
Deadlift 408 375

Shooting for a 1000+ total for next meet, spring/summer 2015. (see quote below)

"If there is nothing you can improve on, your standards are too low!" - BAMA Strength Coach Scott Cochran

1Co 9:27 But I discipline my body and keep it under control, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified
bamazav is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2013, 06:43 PM   #4
BendtheBar
Bearded Beast of Duloc
Max Brawn
Points: 1,554,481, Level: 100 Points: 1,554,481, Level: 100 Points: 1,554,481, Level: 100
Activity: 49% Activity: 49% Activity: 49%
 
BendtheBar's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 79,944
Training Exp: 20+ years
Training Type: Powerbuilding
Fav Exercise: Deadlift
Fav Supp: Butter
Reputation: 2584002
BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!
Default

My bet is that it's likely a form issue. Post up some videos and let us take a look.

You also be a combination of training too heavily with form issues. Do you work anything lower than 5 rep sets?

All lifters have weaknesses, imbalances and form issues they are working on. The key is to balance your intensity in relationship to these issues.

Lifters should always be trying to make every body part as strong as possible. I hate the idea of working on weaknesses, because everyone should be doing that anyway.
__________________
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Destroy That Which Destroys You

"Let bravery be thy choice, but not bravado."



Last edited by BendtheBar; 10-05-2013 at 06:47 PM.
BendtheBar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2013, 05:17 PM   #5
JumpmanRugs
Senior Member
Max Brawn
Points: 2,181, Level: 28 Points: 2,181, Level: 28 Points: 2,181, Level: 28
Activity: 1% Activity: 1% Activity: 1%
 
JumpmanRugs's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 531
Training Exp: 4 years
Training Type: ARGH!!!
Fav Exercise: Squat / Deadlift
Fav Supp: Motivation
Reputation: 10351
JumpmanRugs is a dedicated contributorJumpmanRugs is a dedicated contributorJumpmanRugs is a dedicated contributorJumpmanRugs is a dedicated contributorJumpmanRugs is a dedicated contributorJumpmanRugs is a dedicated contributorJumpmanRugs is a dedicated contributorJumpmanRugs is a dedicated contributorJumpmanRugs is a dedicated contributorJumpmanRugs is a dedicated contributorJumpmanRugs is a dedicated contributor
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by big_swede View Post
Do plancs to work your core, 5x1:00 min or so a couple of times a week. And either over-arch or round when squatting.
My core strength isn't bad though really (of course it can be improved dramatically), i think my lack of ab work hasn't helped. I will def be doing core planks again though for sure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bamazav View Post
Yup. A pelvic tilt either forward or backward can cause lower back pain. Tilts are often the result of an imbalance. If you do a lot of quad dominate work, you should throw in some Hamstring and glute work. I would also advise taking a few days off of squats and deads to let your back recouperate. One other thing I have done is alternate variations of both deads and squats, this will take some of stress off of the lower back.
This is what I'm thinking, and I'm going work on correcting that. I've got a donald duck back (as Elliott Hulse would describe it) in that my but sticks out, lower back in and back up and out to upper back, so maybe my Adductors aren't strong enough? How can I strengthen them without machines? Any free weight stuff? It could be that my adductors need developing and stretching, combined with muscular imbalances, or maybe my upper hammies are tight? Could be lots of things. Right now as I write this I'm sat cross-legged, and I can feel something in my groin / hips and it's uncomfortable, though I can't really tell which it is, I'm almost sure it's groin.

Different variations of squats and deads, will I still get the athletic benefits of them? I always liked jefferson squats as they were brilliant, but that was because I didn't have access to high weights and an olympic bar (Shitty commerical gym). I don't think Hammies and glutes is the problem to be honest, though I'm not sure what is really.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BendtheBar View Post
My bet is that it's likely a form issue. Post up some videos and let us take a look.

You also be a combination of training too heavily with form issues. Do you work anything lower than 5 rep sets?

All lifters have weaknesses, imbalances and form issues they are working on. The key is to balance your intensity in relationship to these issues.

Lifters should always be trying to make every body part as strong as possible. I hate the idea of working on weaknesses, because everyone should be doing that anyway.
When I squat again i'll post some up for you guys.

It could very well be, but I've found it to niggle more now that i'm doing lighter weight for hypertrophy ranges. Also, my hips / groin area are hurting, and I don't know where the heck that has come from.

As I said before in my log and strength topic question I was doing that before, and I really preferred it. I'm not enjoying hypertrophy very much to be honest. It's fun, and the pump is a nicer feeling and it's cool being sore, but I would rather know I'm getting stronger and do lower reps. Maybe it's 5 x 5 time.

I am working on that. I'm wondering if maybe it is also a issue that my quads aren't as strong as the rear of my legs and posterior chain?
JumpmanRugs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2013, 06:31 PM   #6
BigJosh
Senior Member
Max Brawn
Points: 11,344, Level: 70 Points: 11,344, Level: 70 Points: 11,344, Level: 70
Activity: 17% Activity: 17% Activity: 17%
 
BigJosh's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Central California
Posts: 4,066
Training Exp: 7-8 years
Training Type: Fullbody
Fav Exercise: Bench Press and Curls Bro
Fav Supp: Opti-Men Multi Vit
Reputation: 241059
BigJosh is a master memberBigJosh is a master memberBigJosh is a master memberBigJosh is a master memberBigJosh is a master memberBigJosh is a master memberBigJosh is a master memberBigJosh is a master memberBigJosh is a master memberBigJosh is a master memberBigJosh is a master member
Default

In my case I have lower back pain that is caused by abdominal weakness and simply not knowing how to properly engage my abs.

When squeezing your abs for a lift, don't just tighten the front of them. Squeeze them inward. What I have been told is pull your belly button to your spine. This will engage your entire core, not just the front of your abs.

You should do ab assistance work. Everyone should. Planks and side planks are both good options if you are strong enough to do them. There are other less intensive movements I can recommend to you if you need more options. Believe it or not, crunches aren't necessarily the best option for someone with weak abs.
And keep in mind, when performing any ab movement is important to focus on tightening the abs by pulling the belly button to the spine.
__________________
Zdravko Veselin Gaeta

I am not a powerlifter nor am I a bodybuilder. I just want to be big and strong.
Quote:
[Today 05:50 PM] BendtheBar: Write that quote down
[Today 05:50 PM] BendtheBar: If I am going to be a bro, I am going to be the best
Make gains, not excuses.
BigJosh is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2013, 10:36 PM   #7
jdmalm123
Less is More
Max Brawn
Points: 13,158, Level: 74 Points: 13,158, Level: 74 Points: 13,158, Level: 74
Activity: 1% Activity: 1% Activity: 1%
 
jdmalm123's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Colorado
Posts: 3,918
Training Exp: not enough
Training Type: General Fitness
Fav Exercise: the one that doesn't hurt
Fav Supp: Milk
Reputation: 408938
jdmalm123 is one with Crom!jdmalm123 is one with Crom!jdmalm123 is one with Crom!jdmalm123 is one with Crom!jdmalm123 is one with Crom!jdmalm123 is one with Crom!jdmalm123 is one with Crom!jdmalm123 is one with Crom!jdmalm123 is one with Crom!jdmalm123 is one with Crom!jdmalm123 is one with Crom!
Default

any pain radiating down the legs?

i herniated a lumbar disc and had surgery.

not to be alarming but figure it out. deep hip or core tension is often a culprit.

look into your hip flexors, iliopsoas, ITB, etc. are your feet, ankles or knees tight/weak, etc? tension often originates elsewhere and the pain can be from compensation due to an issue at a joint above or below the area where you feel it.
__________________
Balance
jdmalm123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2013, 11:16 PM   #8
MikeM
Senior Member
Max Brawn
Points: 12,864, Level: 74 Points: 12,864, Level: 74 Points: 12,864, Level: 74
Activity: 13% Activity: 13% Activity: 13%
 
MikeM's Avatar
 

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 3,831
Training Exp: in 3rd year
Training Type: Powerlifting
Fav Exercise: Deadlift
Fav Supp: Food
Reputation: 290547
MikeM is an elite memberMikeM is an elite memberMikeM is an elite memberMikeM is an elite memberMikeM is an elite memberMikeM is an elite memberMikeM is an elite memberMikeM is an elite memberMikeM is an elite memberMikeM is an elite memberMikeM is an elite member
Default

What Josh said is hooooge. I always had lower back pain and worked my abs to try and correct it.

Turns out, my "abs" are plenty strong. I can plank 5x 1 min no problem and I can stiff leg 75% of my straight deadlift. BUT, I never really locked my low back into my abs by pulling inward as Josh says. I learned that recently and it is AMAZINGLY different.

Now my relatively weaker low back never feels any strain.

Form is key, but also try this. When I stand over the bar, I get tight and lock myself in slightly arched "Donald duck" as you say, then keep that tightness when I go down to bar, pull yourself down to take tension out of bar, then get on heels and stand up.

For squats, I "bulge" my low belly to do the same thing. But my back is straighter and not as arched, more neutral. Then I squat and try to sort of rebound off my belly if that makes sense.

You gotta find what works for you. Use 50% and play around for a few sessions. See what works for you. Don't keep pushing the envelope assuming that as you can do more weight your form will get better. It won't. You'd be amazed how strong you can get with bad form, right up until it cripples you if you're not lucky.

My .02
__________________
I am Anton Zdravko Martin!

Best meet lifts: Sq 150 Kg (330 lb), Bench 120 Kg (264), DL 160 (352) @89 Kg (197)
Best gym lifts: Sq 375, Bench 280 (pause), DL 385 @205 or less
Goals: 3/4/5
Goals beyond my wildest dreams, 600 Kg raw total, 200/160/240

Hack away at anything which isn't essential. Do what you love, and do it often. Fazc.

Everything competes for recovery so more assistance is not always the best idea. miked96
MikeM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2013, 07:11 AM   #9
CODY_SNIDER
Cody
Max Brawn
Points: 2,673, Level: 31 Points: 2,673, Level: 31 Points: 2,673, Level: 31
Activity: 5% Activity: 5% Activity: 5%
 
CODY_SNIDER's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Honea path SC
Posts: 665
Training Exp: 7
Training Type: Powerlifting
Fav Exercise: The big 3
Reputation: 17687
CODY_SNIDER is a dedicated contributorCODY_SNIDER is a dedicated contributorCODY_SNIDER is a dedicated contributorCODY_SNIDER is a dedicated contributorCODY_SNIDER is a dedicated contributorCODY_SNIDER is a dedicated contributorCODY_SNIDER is a dedicated contributorCODY_SNIDER is a dedicated contributorCODY_SNIDER is a dedicated contributorCODY_SNIDER is a dedicated contributorCODY_SNIDER is a dedicated contributor
Default

http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=plpp&v=DoXIIVywwic

Start here. This is something super easy you can try. This is my go to when I have low back pain. Like others have said there is probably something else going on but this might give you some relief. 2 minutes each leg minimum.
CODY_SNIDER is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2013, 03:47 PM   #10
JumpmanRugs
Senior Member
Max Brawn
Points: 2,181, Level: 28 Points: 2,181, Level: 28 Points: 2,181, Level: 28
Activity: 1% Activity: 1% Activity: 1%
 
JumpmanRugs's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 531
Training Exp: 4 years
Training Type: ARGH!!!
Fav Exercise: Squat / Deadlift
Fav Supp: Motivation
Reputation: 10351
JumpmanRugs is a dedicated contributorJumpmanRugs is a dedicated contributorJumpmanRugs is a dedicated contributorJumpmanRugs is a dedicated contributorJumpmanRugs is a dedicated contributorJumpmanRugs is a dedicated contributorJumpmanRugs is a dedicated contributorJumpmanRugs is a dedicated contributorJumpmanRugs is a dedicated contributorJumpmanRugs is a dedicated contributorJumpmanRugs is a dedicated contributor
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJosh View Post
In my case I have lower back pain that is caused by abdominal weakness and simply not knowing how to properly engage my abs.

When squeezing your abs for a lift, don't just tighten the front of them. Squeeze them inward. What I have been told is pull your belly button to your spine. This will engage your entire core, not just the front of your abs.

You should do ab assistance work. Everyone should. Planks and side planks are both good options if you are strong enough to do them. There are other less intensive movements I can recommend to you if you need more options. Believe it or not, crunches aren't necessarily the best option for someone with weak abs.
And keep in mind, when performing any ab movement is important to focus on tightening the abs by pulling the belly button to the spine.
Amazing advice, i'll be trying that tomorrow! Thank you so much, that is incredibly helpful!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdmalm123 View Post
any pain radiating down the legs?

i herniated a lumbar disc and had surgery.

not to be alarming but figure it out. deep hip or core tension is often a culprit.

look into your hip flexors, iliopsoas, ITB, etc. are your feet, ankles or knees tight/weak, etc? tension often originates elsewhere and the pain can be from compensation due to an issue at a joint above or below the area where you feel it.
None at all buddy, just muscles cramping up a bit. It's strictly in my lower back and hips, and it's because my hips are extremely tight I've learned. I did some yoga stuff for my hips tonight and it was so difficult. It seems to be hamstrings, glutes and hips that are mad tihgt for me, and I think I've discovered why!

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeM View Post
What Josh said is hooooge. I always had lower back pain and worked my abs to try and correct it.

Turns out, my "abs" are plenty strong. I can plank 5x 1 min no problem and I can stiff leg 75% of my straight deadlift. BUT, I never really locked my low back into my abs by pulling inward as Josh says. I learned that recently and it is AMAZINGLY different.

Now my relatively weaker low back never feels any strain.

Form is key, but also try this. When I stand over the bar, I get tight and lock myself in slightly arched "Donald duck" as you say, then keep that tightness when I go down to bar, pull yourself down to take tension out of bar, then get on heels and stand up.

For squats, I "bulge" my low belly to do the same thing. But my back is straighter and not as arched, more neutral. Then I squat and try to sort of rebound off my belly if that makes sense.

You gotta find what works for you. Use 50% and play around for a few sessions. See what works for you. Don't keep pushing the envelope assuming that as you can do more weight your form will get better. It won't. You'd be amazed how strong you can get with bad form, right up until it cripples you if you're not lucky.

My .02
I will most definitely be doing the 50% for a few sessions with a lot of reps to get my form right, thank you!

Planking isn't a problem for me, I can do a few minutes at a time, but am looking to work up to 5 minutes, however with that in mind one would assume my abs / core is relatively strong?

Your advice is excellent though, so thank you so much!! It's really helpful and I will be doing that!

Quote:
Originally Posted by CODY_SNIDER View Post
http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=plpp&v=DoXIIVywwic

Start here. This is something super easy you can try. This is my go to when I have low back pain. Like others have said there is probably something else going on but this might give you some relief. 2 minutes each leg minimum.
Thanks buddy, I will try this!! Thank you!!
JumpmanRugs is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
dumbbell goblet squats to back squats ratio old school Muscle Building and Bodybuilding 4 01-29-2012 04:59 PM
What are the difference between Oly deads and squats vs conventional? SeventySeven Powerlifting & Strength Training 7 08-18-2011 08:53 AM
Deads Instead of Squats? Abaddon Muscle Building and Bodybuilding 19 05-11-2011 08:16 PM
Deads on Back day, Squats on Leg day? Abaddon General Board 7 04-03-2011 08:19 PM
I have lower back pain BendtheBar Muscle Building and Bodybuilding 17 11-09-2010 08:47 PM

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:36 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.