Muscle and Brawn Forums
 

Go Back   Muscle and Brawn Forums > Training > General Fitness & Health
Mark Forums Read
Register Articles Members List Search Today's Posts

Notices

General Fitness & Health Discuss general fitness. conditioning and health topics.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 04-29-2013, 11:32 AM   #1
SaxonViolence
Senior Member
Brawn
Points: 1,222, Level: 19 Points: 1,222, Level: 19 Points: 1,222, Level: 19
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
 
SaxonViolence's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 208
Reputation: 15410
SaxonViolence is a dedicated contributorSaxonViolence is a dedicated contributorSaxonViolence is a dedicated contributorSaxonViolence is a dedicated contributorSaxonViolence is a dedicated contributorSaxonViolence is a dedicated contributorSaxonViolence is a dedicated contributorSaxonViolence is a dedicated contributorSaxonViolence is a dedicated contributorSaxonViolence is a dedicated contributorSaxonViolence is a dedicated contributor
Cool Depth on Presses Behind Neck

I love the Press Behind The Neck.

I usually sit on a Bench Press Bench, lean back and shoulder the weight...

Now this is important...

I start with the Bar in a "High Olympic Squat Position" on my Trapsóbut before I Press, I Shrug the Bar down into the lowest "Low Back Powerlifter Squat Position" that you'd ever want to see...

And I return it to Low Back Position for every Rep.

Whew!

The way I see some folks do it, they ought to call it the "Press Behind The Head" cause it barely goes behind the Neck Proper at all.

Some folks seem satisfied with "Press Behind The Forehead".

And then they want to brag about how much weight they can use...

Like bragging how much they can lift on a 3 Board Bench Press.

Comments?

Do y'all agree that this is a frequently misused Exercise?

Saxon Violence
SaxonViolence is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 05-10-2013, 01:58 PM   #2
BendtheBar
Bearded Beast of Duloc
Max Brawn
Points: 1,554,481, Level: 100 Points: 1,554,481, Level: 100 Points: 1,554,481, Level: 100
Activity: 49% Activity: 49% Activity: 49%
 
BendtheBar's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 79,816
Training Exp: 20+ years
Training Type: Powerbuilding
Fav Exercise: Deadlift
Fav Supp: Butter
Reputation: 2583792
BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!
Default

I never let the BTN go below my ears. That keeps my arms about parallel to the ground and protects my shoulders.

The further back the elbows go on a BTN press, the more stress you generally place upon the shoulders. Same goes for a bench press.

My current max is 315 but I rarely train them. These are with 230 I believe.

__________________
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Destroy That Which Destroys You

"Let bravery be thy choice, but not bravado."



Last edited by BendtheBar; 05-10-2013 at 02:00 PM.
BendtheBar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2013, 02:00 PM   #3
brad1224
Senior Member
Max Brawn
Points: 5,286, Level: 46 Points: 5,286, Level: 46 Points: 5,286, Level: 46
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
 
brad1224's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 844
Reputation: 43342
brad1224 is a lifting machinebrad1224 is a lifting machinebrad1224 is a lifting machinebrad1224 is a lifting machinebrad1224 is a lifting machinebrad1224 is a lifting machinebrad1224 is a lifting machinebrad1224 is a lifting machinebrad1224 is a lifting machinebrad1224 is a lifting machinebrad1224 is a lifting machine
Default

i love BNP but i hit them on Smith just so i dont have to worry about balancing the bar..but i bb so i could care less about the weight also, but i know exactly what your talking about...or how about a bb shoulder press when they bring it down to the top of their head and back up haha
__________________
EAT BIG TO GET BIG

***AAEFX REP***



Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/AllAmericanEFX
Twitter: @AllAmericanEFX
Instagram: @AAEFX

http://www.aaefx.com
brad1224 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2013, 02:24 PM   #4
ndrwdslv
Senior Member
Max Brawn
Points: 3,978, Level: 40 Points: 3,978, Level: 40 Points: 3,978, Level: 40
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
 
ndrwdslv's Avatar
 

Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Anchorage, AK
Posts: 570
Training Exp: 3
Fav Exercise: Squat
Fav Supp: Lactose-free Milk
Reputation: 37640
ndrwdslv is a lifting machinendrwdslv is a lifting machinendrwdslv is a lifting machinendrwdslv is a lifting machinendrwdslv is a lifting machinendrwdslv is a lifting machinendrwdslv is a lifting machinendrwdslv is a lifting machinendrwdslv is a lifting machinendrwdslv is a lifting machinendrwdslv is a lifting machine
Default

Depends what I want to do.. Smith Machine for heavy work and wont go below parallel, light weight I go barbell and as low as I can to stretch errthang.
Just listen to your body and work on mobility if you want more depth..
ndrwdslv is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2013, 08:24 AM   #5
5kgLifter
Kettlebells' Angel !!!!
Max Brawn
Points: 23,645, Level: 94 Points: 23,645, Level: 94 Points: 23,645, Level: 94
Activity: 11% Activity: 11% Activity: 11%
 
5kgLifter's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 13,927
Training Type: Other
Reputation: 646483
5kgLifter is one with Crom!5kgLifter is one with Crom!5kgLifter is one with Crom!5kgLifter is one with Crom!5kgLifter is one with Crom!5kgLifter is one with Crom!5kgLifter is one with Crom!5kgLifter is one with Crom!5kgLifter is one with Crom!5kgLifter is one with Crom!5kgLifter is one with Crom!
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SaxonViolence View Post

And then they want to brag about how much weight they can use...

Like bragging how much they can lift on a 3 Board Bench Press.

Comments?

Do y'all agree that this is a frequently misused Exercise?

Saxon Violence
I don't use the exercise, I don't like it.


Bragging about 3-board bench press numbers, really? 3-board bench press and bench press are just two different animals, nothing wrong with comparing or stating numbers that can be lifted during either, as long as they're not claiming them as the bench press number but stating it's for a 3-board bench press which I'm pretty sure they would anyway.

Seems, you just don't like powerlifters, that's how it's coming across, at least.
__________________
36.5 kg /80.3 lb Middle-Finger DL (right hand)...
5kgLifter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2013, 08:54 PM   #6
SaxonViolence
Senior Member
Brawn
Points: 1,222, Level: 19 Points: 1,222, Level: 19 Points: 1,222, Level: 19
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
 
SaxonViolence's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 208
Reputation: 15410
SaxonViolence is a dedicated contributorSaxonViolence is a dedicated contributorSaxonViolence is a dedicated contributorSaxonViolence is a dedicated contributorSaxonViolence is a dedicated contributorSaxonViolence is a dedicated contributorSaxonViolence is a dedicated contributorSaxonViolence is a dedicated contributorSaxonViolence is a dedicated contributorSaxonViolence is a dedicated contributorSaxonViolence is a dedicated contributor
Cool

Naw, I trained real hard as a Powerlifter—and a bunch of stuff just kept me from ever competing (like lots of months and months unemployment and then having travelling jobs).

But my Gym, a Powerlifting Gym that was fairly successful...

Always stressed slow and full range of motion as well as much higher reps than most Powerlifters use.

Tweren't any chains or bands back then either.

Basically we were taught that anytime momentum came into play, we were cheating (in a physical and moral sense).

Momentum wasn't just ineffective—It was Evil.

"Speed Kills."

We scorned "Momentum Mongers".

Partial reps were bad—not as bad as using momentum—but still pretty bad.

It was okay to "Cheat" at the meet—cause everyone else "Cheats" too (in terms of Utilizing Momentum).

{It would be very hard to enforce a "No Momentum" Rule at a Powerlifting Meet.}

And we'd go to low reps a few weeks out, just to learn to "Cheat" and how much we could "Cheat".

But we were taught that low reps are for Demonstration of Strength, but they Do Not Develop Strength.

{I've begun to question this somewhat. I want to try some 5 rep regimes over time...}

I don't dislike Powerlifters...

But my old Coach would have a stroke if he saw some of the Momentum Mongering that goes on nowadays.

I would lose all satisfaction in my training if I threw weights around like some I see.

Our home made Leg Press Machine had a chain so that you always were sure that you lowered it 100% every rep.

Some high school kids would Momentum Monger and Coach would Scream:

"This exercise is to build strong legs!

"If you cheat,

"And you don't build any Strength in your legs,

Are you gonna tell your Football coach,

'I can bounce 500 Pounds off a Chain!' ?"


He used many gimmicks and altered many machines so that you always knew if you started leaving part of the range of motion out as you tired.

{You'd be surprised how often folk stop short, once there is an Objective way to check.}

Y'all note CT Fletcher's loose technique and partial reps?

Well at most Gyms, the Stricter Form Guys look as loose to me, as CT Fletcher does to you.

{And I love CT Fletcher. Somehow he makes gains in spite of his bizarre training—and he is very inspirational to listen to.}

I like the camaraderie here—and try hard not to sound Judgmental on Techniques—Whatever may go through my head...

And I'm kinda surprised that you think that I dislike Powerlifters.


Saxon Violence
SaxonViolence is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2013, 09:57 PM   #7
BendtheBar
Bearded Beast of Duloc
Max Brawn
Points: 1,554,481, Level: 100 Points: 1,554,481, Level: 100 Points: 1,554,481, Level: 100
Activity: 49% Activity: 49% Activity: 49%
 
BendtheBar's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 79,816
Training Exp: 20+ years
Training Type: Powerbuilding
Fav Exercise: Deadlift
Fav Supp: Butter
Reputation: 2583792
BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SaxonViolence View Post
I don't dislike Powerlifters...

But my old Coach would have a stroke if he saw some of the Momentum Mongering that goes on nowadays.
Most powerlifters use very good form, and are very form-aware. It's usually the bodybuilders who are sloppy.

Regarding momentum....speed generation is not the enemy, nor does it mean you are using bad form. It isn't a contest to see who can remove all momentum from lifts. That's not strength, nor is it good form. That is some bizarre creation based on someone's concept of what ideal lifting is.

I am not sure where you are pulling this powerlifting view from, but it's not something I see in the niche. Powerlifters have to halt momentum in the bench press on the chest. Name the last time you've seen a bodybuilder do this.

Have you been to any powerlifting meets or gyms? It's nothing like your vision.
__________________
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Destroy That Which Destroys You

"Let bravery be thy choice, but not bravado."



Last edited by BendtheBar; 05-18-2013 at 10:15 PM.
BendtheBar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2013, 10:31 PM   #8
Dray
Senior Member
Max Brawn
Points: 10,100, Level: 67 Points: 10,100, Level: 67 Points: 10,100, Level: 67
Activity: 6% Activity: 6% Activity: 6%
 

Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: tldu
Posts: 3,981
Training Type: Fullbody
Fav Exercise: bench press
Reputation: 245313
Dray is a master memberDray is a master memberDray is a master memberDray is a master memberDray is a master memberDray is a master memberDray is a master memberDray is a master memberDray is a master memberDray is a master memberDray is a master member
Default

It would be very informative to see some of your technique at work with some serious weight (in videos), SaxonViolence. Perhaps you would be so good as to do this?

As for powerlifting, my understanding is that the only lift of the three where "momentum" could even be hinted at being there in some instances... is the squat. In that there can be an element of stretch reflex from the bottom, more so with a squat suit. (?)

The bench press has to be paused at torso level, and you would be daft to let it fall at a hundred feet a second to get there, besides (if that would be relevant to your, um, theory). The deadlift... er, is lifted from a dead stop, hence the name. Can hardly use "momentum" there either, in the sense that you are apparently meaning it.
__________________
My training log
Dray is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2013, 01:42 AM   #9
SaxonViolence
Senior Member
Brawn
Points: 1,222, Level: 19 Points: 1,222, Level: 19 Points: 1,222, Level: 19
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
 
SaxonViolence's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 208
Reputation: 15410
SaxonViolence is a dedicated contributorSaxonViolence is a dedicated contributorSaxonViolence is a dedicated contributorSaxonViolence is a dedicated contributorSaxonViolence is a dedicated contributorSaxonViolence is a dedicated contributorSaxonViolence is a dedicated contributorSaxonViolence is a dedicated contributorSaxonViolence is a dedicated contributorSaxonViolence is a dedicated contributorSaxonViolence is a dedicated contributor
Cool

I haven't been to a Meet since the '80s.

I'm old and my body largely shot, so I'm no Poster Child for my old Coach's Methods.

3 seconds up and 5 seconds down builds both character and pure strength...

But it won't win contests.

When a beginner takes his Bench Press from 100 x 10; up to 200 x 10;

Is he twice as strong?

Coach would say that maybe 60 Pounds of the increase was Pure Strength, but the other 40 Pounds is from better technique.

That was a real problem in Coach's eyes.

It made it harder to gauge true progress. Lifting the extra "Skill Weight" did nothing to build strength, but did add to the strain on tendons, ligaments and recovery ability.

If you're going to lift in Competition, there ain't no help for it—you're going to have to develop plenty skill to go along with your Strength.

If you are just muscling up for football or Wrestling...

Well, suffice it to say that Coach developed many techniques and devices to nullify the skill factor.

I'm a little puzzled by the Argument that Powerlifters don't use Momentum.

I thought I'd seen Beaucoup articles about how to blast and explode out of the bottom—whatever the lift.

"Driving out of the Hole" and "Accelerating the Bar" is the exact thing that Coach preached against.


Saxon Violence

Just watched the Video.

That's very good form and tempo.

I'd go lower, but if you don't want to that's what you're doing.

One of the mental images that I always had—if someone walked up on you, and your Bar or Dumbbell struck him, would it do serious harm?

{Not a safety thing—just a way to visualize...}

If you're swinging weights around fast enough to knock someone out, your tempo is way too fast.

Last edited by SaxonViolence; 05-19-2013 at 01:51 AM.
SaxonViolence is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2013, 06:49 AM   #10
Off Road
Senior Member
Max Brawn
Points: 17,091, Level: 83 Points: 17,091, Level: 83 Points: 17,091, Level: 83
Activity: 1% Activity: 1% Activity: 1%
 
Off Road's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 7,606
Reputation: 786994
Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!
Default

I'm guessing your coach was probably a fan of Dr. Ellington Darden?
Off Road is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Neck pain angie828 General Fitness & Health 7 04-09-2013 06:40 PM
Can't do press behind neck you say.... Trevor Ross Powerlifting & Strength Training 6 06-14-2012 04:34 PM
my neck runwithme General Fitness & Health 6 03-06-2012 05:10 PM
Neck pain runwithme Muscle Building and Bodybuilding 3 12-31-2011 04:07 PM
Roundtable: Squat Depth BendtheBar Video Compilations 0 05-10-2011 04:51 PM

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:41 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.