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-   -   "Pure Rest-Pause" and Watered Down Versions (http://www.muscleandbrawn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13482)

SaxonViolence 04-29-2013 11:15 AM

"Pure Rest-Pause" and Watered Down Versions
 
Some people lift until they can't do any more...

Set down the weight and breathe deeply for 20-30 seconds, pick up the weight and force out 2 or 3 more reps...

And call it "Rest-Pause".

A second version is to have someone strip some weight off when you can't do any more—Pause—Continue.

Some people use sets of 3—with or without weight reductions—with pauses between.

All that is well and good, if it works for you...

But it is not "Real" Rest-Pause.

Real Rest-Pause is putting your best Triple weight on the Bar.

Do One Rep...

Rack the Bar and Pause 20-30 seconds...

Do another Rep...

Rack the Bar and Pause for 20-30 Seconds...

Repeat until Failure or near Failure.

Folk's performance differs.

Generally you'll get 7 to 12 reps the first day...

If you progress from a max of 7 Reps to a max of 12 reps—you will be considerably stronger.

{12 is generally the target Rep, so it is time to add a bit of weight...}

This only seems to work really well for me on the Bench Press.

It came to me one day, that 20 Rep Squats are a form of Rest-Pause—without the re-racking each Rep.

One can't use this method for long periods of time, but it is a "Plateau-Breaker".

{The Pauses call for a bit of discretion. 20 seconds may be the scheduled Pause—but late in the set, I may "Cheat" and allow 30-45 seconds if I think that it will get me another Rep.}

Has anyone used this Training Method?

Why is the Pure Form so much less common, or utilized than the Bastard Versions?

Comments?


Saxon Violence

BendtheBar 04-29-2013 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaxonViolence (Post 356671)
But it is not "Real" Rest-Pause.

Real Rest-Pause is putting your best Triple weight on the Bar.

Do One Rep...

Rack the Bar and Pause 20-30 seconds...

Do another Rep...

That's Max-Stim training with a non-intuitive rest period, or forced rest periods.

Can I ask why the need to force a hard definition of rest pause? Shouldn't rest on big compound movements be dictated instinctually, so you maximize form and reduce injury risk?

My rest pause systems varies the rest from 30 seconds to even beyond one minute for heavier exercises, and I assure you they are extremely effective and challenging.

Who determines the definitions? What point does it serve to not leave a broader scope for these definitions?

I've been in this game a long time and have seen a hundred ways of doing rest pause work, giant sets, etc. Wouldn't a broader definition be more appropriate?

Are we trying to educate folks and open doors, or force them into a narrow corridor because of a definition?

5kgLifter 04-29-2013 11:26 AM

It's not so much that one version is the correct one and the others are incorrect or watered down versions, it's more a case of word usage:

If someone pauses and then continues, they may well quite rightly call it Rest-Pause which to all intents and purposes it is; it may well be that one version was logged, by a trainee, and others began to follow the same style of set-up calling it Rest-Pause as they went along which would eventually see it named the same way as the inital traineee did...that's how set-ups and training styles originate.

There are so many ways to Rest-Pause a set but Rest-Pause is just an all-encompassing term, none of the set-ups, no matter how many there are, are either right or wrong, they're simply named appropriately.

Eventually, it may be that people will use other additional words to distinguish one style from the other such as with DLs, of which there are many variations, none of which are wrong; sometimes, it's just a matter of terminology.

BigJosh 04-29-2013 11:29 AM

This reads like a cut and paste job. Source?

SaxonViolence 04-29-2013 11:52 AM

Can't remember where I first read of it...

I think it was in an article about The Barbarian Brothers.

Its just the one Rep and Pause seemed very effective and I though folks were being cheated a bit by always being presented with what I perceived of as Lesser Variations.

The Gym where I trained at, we trained every set to Failure (8-15 reps x 2 or at most 3 sets) and accepted that unless we were one of the gifted few, we would run into a brick wall about six months into training and make only very occasional gains in Strength thereafter...

Despite literally turning each session into a Torture Session.

Pure Rest Pausealong with 20 Rep Squats—was one of those Magic Exercises that could actually add 20-30 pounds to One's Bench (until one hit the Inevitable Plateau)...

Magic Exercises are so Rare and Precious that they Deserve to be in a Category all by themselves—not lumped into a hodge-podge of exercises that may be effective, but are not Magical.

Didn't mean to be argumentative.

It's just that when folks lay out "Rest-Pause" strategies, the Purest one seems to inevitably be the one they neglect to mention...


Saxon Violence

5kgLifter 04-29-2013 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaxonViolence (Post 356681)
Can't remember where I first read of it...

I think it was in an article about The Barbarian Brothers.

Its just the one Rep and Pause seemed very effective and I though folks were being cheated a bit by always being presented with what I perceived of as Lesser Variations.

The Gym where I trained at, we trained every set to Failure (8-15 reps x 2 or at most 3 sets) and accepted that unless we were one of the gifted few, we would run into a brick wall about six months into training and make only very occasional gains in Strength thereafter...

Despite literally turning each session into a Torture Session.

Pure Rest Pausealong with 20 Rep Squats—was one of those Magic Exercises that could actually add 20-30 pounds to One's Bench (until one hit the Inevitable Plateau)...

Magic Exercises are so Rare and Precious that they Deserve to be in a Category all by themselves—not lumped into a hodge-podge of exercises that may be effective, but are not Magical.

Didn't mean to be argumentative.

It's just that when folks lay out "Rest-Pause" strategies, the Purest one seems to inevitably be the one they neglect to mention...


Saxon Violence

Well, say for example, a person rests and pauses briefly during a set, for whatever reason, and they have never heard of the rest-pause system you just described as a "rare and precious exercise not to be lumped with a hodge-podge of "ineffective" exercises" what do you suggest they do?

They have every right to call it Rest-Pause which is exactly what it is. They may be new to working out or just have never come across that training protocol, it is possible with all the various protocols out there.


I rest and pause briefly, to get my set done, due to a medical condition which halts me during certain exercises, so I log it as Rest-Pause, most, if not all on the forum, know exactly what I mean; it's not an issue, however, when things like this become an issue, it does nothing but drive people away from either sites/forums such as this or worse still, away from their training which was progressing fine until they were informed they were using the wrong wording and that their's is not the magic exercise and please don't lump it in with the percious exercise in future kind of thing.

Bill 04-29-2013 12:07 PM

doggcrapp

BendtheBar 04-29-2013 12:21 PM

Try doing a set of 10x10 on squats with 50% of your max, using 90 seconds between rests. See if you feel that is rest-pause.

Point being...tossing our generalities for every exercise doesn't work, be it rest periods or rep ranges. Each exercise is unique. I can recover from a set of intense calf raises or tricep extensions in 20-30 seconds and start another one without it feeling much like rest-pause. On the other hand, doing a 10x10 on squats and resting 90 seconds, you will start to see Jesus after set 3 because you can't recover.

The point of rest-pause training is to tax a muscle again before it has fully recovered, relative to how much it can recover at any given point in time during a workout. Into this mix you must add the unique demands of exercises, as well as the risk/reward that comes from pushing shorter rest periods on inherently troublesome exercises.

Rules, workouts and eating plans are only starting points. If they are not customized to a lifter, an exercise, etc, then it's foolish. I know of no top level bodybuilders or powerlifters who would stick to rules rather than adapt them to individual body needs and exercise demands.

Ramrod 04-29-2013 12:46 PM

If your hitting a wall every 6 months... All it takes is switching days around, replacing exercises with another, Drop Sets, Super Sets, Giant Sets, Rest/Pause, FST-7 Sets. 5/3/1, 5x5, 10x10, burnouts and so on...

Keep a log of what you are doing everyday... Then when you notice a slow down in growth. Review your log and make changes... 99% of the time nothing drastic is needed..

Off Road 04-29-2013 01:37 PM

Pure? Peary Rader was writing about "rest-pause" way before the Barbarian Brothers. Somebody else was doing it way before Peary. Who's to say what the "pure form" is?


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